skirtcafe.org

Dillon nailed it in that last post.

Please, lets stop trying to read things into what one attires himself in that are, quite likely, not there.

The more pernicious note on the entire notion of "cross-dressing" is that it somehow demeans the man because the assumption is made that the woman is inferior. Really, guys, its time to stake that notion through its heart and move on.

crfriend wrote:Dillon nailed it in that last post.

Please, lets stop trying to read things into what one attires himself in that are, quite likely, not there.

The more pernicious note on the entire notion of "cross-dressing" is that it somehow demeans the man because the assumption is made that the woman is inferior. Really, guys, its time to stake that notion through its heart and move on.

I do agree with Dillon, however in the 16 pages of this thread, I do believe commentary along those lines has been mentioned several times. It seems that is the conclusion we always settle on.

If we settled on it the topic wouldn't keep popping up but Carl really got to the heart of the issue. Crossdressers were derided because they were men who were lowering themselves (to the common eye) into the woman's place in society.

As more of us walk about in public with our heads held high and ditto all of the folks in the whole labelled gender variants, and especially as we get accepted in the workplace the more normalized it will become and the less people, of all persuasions, will worry about labels and just start accepting people for who they are.

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:If we settled on it the topic wouldn't keep popping up but Carl really got to the heart of the issue. Crossdressers were derided because they were men who were lowering themselves (to the common eye) into the woman's place in society.

As more of us walk about in public with our heads held high and ditto all of the folks in the whole labelled gender variants, and especially as we get accepted in the workplace the more normalized it will become and the less people, of all persuasions, will worry about labels and just start accepting people for who they are.

Hear, hear!

Although I don't think that the term applies to me I'm sure that MOH thinks I do and, although I don't really give a stuff for that term or any other, what MOH thinks is important to me and I've just got to change her thinking on it.

Sinned wrote:Although I don't think that the term applies to me I'm sure that MOH thinks I do and, although I don't really give a stuff for that term or any other, what MOH thinks is important to me and I've just got to change her thinking on it.

I completely echo this post.....except its not up to me to change her thinking, I can only try to lead her to change her thinking herself.
Maybe I'm splitting hairs!

Derek

Possibly Derek, MOH is very strong willed and even leading her to the water is done with a lot of dragging and spitting. But you are probably right in that I can't change her mind - she has to do that but whatever I say or do seems to make no difference. Maybe in time the penny will drop but time is galloping along and I can see that there aren't too many years ahead. I hope she doesn't come to regret the arguments and the good times we could have had out not caring about what others think.

MOH won't be seen out with me if I'm wearing a skirt - that's her choice and I have to respect it. If she changed her mind, strangely enough, I'm not sure if I would like to be out with her like that. She never wears skirts or dresses herself except on very "dressed up" occaisions. I can't help thinking it would feel a bit strange for me as well as for her. The compromise is that, if we want to go out together, I have to wear trousers. I am happy to go along with that as long as I can go out in a skirt without her regularly. She knows I need to do that or else I become very grumpy and irritable after a while. It all seems to work at the moment. I'm just thankful we have reached this stage - it has taken many years of frustration, arguments and upsets to get this far and I can't bear upsetting her - I love her so much!

Derek

Derek Plattis wrote:If she changed her mind, strangely enough, I'm not sure if I would like to be out with her like that. She never wears skirts or dresses herself except on very "dressed up" occaisions. I can't help thinking it would feel a bit strange for me as well as for her.

If she changes her mind, I'd say "roll with it". Dress as you see fit, but, as always, be tasteful. If she gets wigged out by you looking sharper than her then let her ramp up the game.

What's good for the goose is also good for the gander -- and vice-versa.

Compromise is all well and good -- to a point. After that point, it's not compromise, it's domination.

To reinforce what Carl just posted, I have a married friend at church that I've gone to concerts with, etc. it's a point of amusement when she wears pants to an occasion and I'm in a skirt or dress. However either of us are dressed, one of us rarely shows up the other, at least not by much. We both like to dance, but her husband doesn't particularly. So if and when the 3 of us do go dancing, if I'm in dress and she's in pants, we've pretty much decided she'll lead!

If the opportunity presents itself that your wife will go out with you in a skirt and she wears pants that night, just have FUN with it! Remember, that is our point.

crfriend wrote:[

Compromise is all well and good -- to a point. After that point, it's not compromise, it's domination.

Sorry, I can't wholly agree with that. Can any successful relationship exist without willing compromise?

Anyway, whilst advice is always valued and I thank you both for it, I'm pretty certain that we have it right for us. It works for us both and we are happy with it.

Derek

MOH and I have compromised - I do what she says except when I completely ignore her and do what I like, generally when she's not around. I have been off work since Thursday afternoon with a viral infection, Viruses affect me badly as a diabetic and lay me completely out. I have spent all that time in bed, and still am, with a chest infection giving me a bad cough making all my chest muscles ache. To say that I have felt really crap is an understatement - days of discomfort and pain drifting in and out of sleep. I have slept separate to save giving her this lurgy and not to keep her awake with my coughing. I haven't eaten anything in all that time which means I will have lost several pounds in weight. Not a bad thing but a hell of a way to do it. I will still be off for the next two or three days and Tuesday will be interesting as MOH will be at work so I plan to put on a skirt and get up and go out for the first time in a week, have something to eat to replenish my stores and do some shopping. I need something to look forward to after such a depressing week. I feel a little stronger and more like I'm alive today as opposed to three quarters dying. BTW MOH does know that I go out in a skirt when she's not around but she seems to choose to ignore it,

I think that this infection has come about because I injured my ribs in an accident at work and this lowered my resistance. I had been working in a bitterly cold warehouse and hence these two factors made me susceptible. I need to have a strong word with the Store Manager and basically say that I will spend the minimum amount of time in the warehouse and work the boxes out on the shop floor where it is warm. Or find me another role in the shop. My current role is delivery - taking the incoming goods, opening the boxes and putting the stuff on the shop floor. Not my favourite role.

Derek Plattis wrote:Can any successful relationship exist without willing compromise?

Compromise is a necessary part of any successful relationship. Capitulation, however, is most emphatically not, and is an indicator of a failed relationship.

"Compromise", if it only works one way is not compromise at all; it's supposed to be transitive.

crfriend wrote:

Derek Plattis wrote:Can any successful relationship exist without willing compromise?

Compromise is a necessary part of any successful relationship. Capitulation, however, is most emphatically not, and is an indicator of a failed relationship.

"Compromise", if it only works one way is not compromise at all; it's supposed to be transitive.

O.K. so now we're playing semantics are we? Compromise is a necessary part of any relationship....agreed wholeheartedly.
Capitulation means "giving in to an opponent or an unwelcome demand" (Oxford Dictionary). MOH is not an oponent but some of the demands in a relationship will inevitably be unwelcome on a selfish level. Putting the other member's needs and interests first is often necessaryand doing so is far from an indicator of a failed relationship! Compromise works both ways by definition, otherwise it cannot be called compromise.

When I posted my thoughts on this - I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!

Derek

Sinned. I wish you a speedy recovery. I know that as I get older it often times takes longer to recover from illness.