Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us?

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.

Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby r.m.anderson » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:13 am

dillon wrote:The previous post was intended for the thread "I Guess I Won't Be Wearing A Skirt Anymore." Not sure how I put it in the wrong place.


I guess you can state that it was a response to "Don't Ask Don't Tell" a misdirected post in the wrong thread ! Not to worry ! Those of us who have been over the
hill and through the woods not to grandmas house but to forum misdirected mania can relate to this.
Now what was I doing before I read this post and realized where it should have been posted somewhere else and now have moved on !

Que sera sera !

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Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby Bamaskirting » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:06 am

dillon wrote:I'm sure it wasn't easy for Dr. King and others to march across that bridge in Selma, either...

summer trip 2015 025.JPG


summer trip 2015 031.JPG

Guess not. It basically cost him his life.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby moonshadow » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:53 am

Bamaskirting wrote:Guess not. It basically cost him his life.


Give me liberty or give me death!
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby Gusto10 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:56 pm

Back to the main question, i.m.o. not. By creating a new label, matrix lovers are satisfied and thus the majority of the people as they will repeat as is asked of them. In esence it's a form of discrimination and thus against - if I'm not mistaken - art 3 of the human rights manifest
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby crfriend » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:04 pm

moonshadow wrote:Give me liberty or give me death!

What do you suppose Patrick Henry would think upon reading the Patriot Act or seeing what the United States has become? Such questions are worth pondering.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby Caultron » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:10 pm

Well, here's an article(albeit five years old) reporting transgender activists being outraged by a man in a skirt.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/201 ... -censored/

Apparently, the transgender activists felt that the skirt-wearing man was not conforming to the path they'd set for themselves, and was in fact diluting their position.

Which proves that transgender activists can be as falsely binary as anyone else.

In general, though, I believe that acceptance of all LGBT persuasions softens the field for everyone, including us.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby crfriend » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:57 pm

Caultron wrote:[...] Which proves that transgender activists can be as falsely binary as anyone else.

It also brings us right back 'round to my assertion of, "What happens when there is not a lick of trans-* in a simple style choice?" Are (male) humans somehow prohibited from experimenting with lower-half garments by the simple basis of sex or gender? If so, why and by whose authority?
In general, though, I believe that acceptance of all LGBT persuasions softens the field for everyone, including us.

I remain unconvinced. What happens if there isn't anything there that fits the common (read, "today's") description of "LGBT" (which I still can't help think somehow stands for, "Let's Get Battered Trout")?

Go ahead and call me an insensitive prick. I am sometimes.

Blast it, I should have had the fish and chips for dinner.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby Caultron » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:46 am

crfriend wrote:...Are (male) humans somehow prohibited from experimenting with lower-half garments by the simple basis of sex or gender?...

No, of course not. Everybody gets to pick out their own clothes.

crfriend wrote:...What happens if there isn't anything there that fits the common (read, "today's") description of "LGBT"...

That would be falsely binary.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby crfriend » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:18 pm

Caultron wrote:Everybody gets to pick out their own clothes.

Well, good. There's at least that.
Caultron wrote:
crfriend wrote:...What happens if there isn't anything there that fits the common (read, "today's") description of "LGBT"...
That would be falsely binary.

If we take the "gender spectrum" as a continuum, where does a man who identifies as a man, is happy being a man, and is relatively well-adjusted actually fit? Is he "off the continuum" somehow? Binary sometimes works.

I think we're reading too much into the newage aspect of this. It wasn't all that long ago that men had open to them an entire range of expression and behaviour that now seems to be "off limits" unless they're willing to "admit to being less than a man". Has creeping machismo really screwed with the general population's minds that badly? If so, it's a shame. Moreover, If I don't live up to your (in the general sense here) stereotypical view of maleness, is this your problem or mine? I am compelled to conclude it's the former because there are too many stereotypes out there -- some in direct contradiction with each other -- for any individual to internalise and alter his behaviour to accommodate.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby Caultron » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:39 pm

crfriend wrote:...I think we're reading too much into the newage aspect of this. It wasn't all that long ago that men had open to them an entire range of expression and behaviour that now seems to be "off limits" unless they're willing to "admit to being less than a man". Has creeping machismo really screwed with the general population's minds that badly? If so, it's a shame. Moreover, If I don't live up to your (in the general sense here) stereotypical view of maleness, is this your problem or mine? I am compelled to conclude it's the former because there are too many stereotypes out there -- some in direct contradiction with each other -- for any individual to internalise and alter his behaviour to accommodate.

The whole, "Be a man," mindset is fraught with binaries.

"Be yourself," works much better for me.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby moonshadow » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:40 am

crfriend wrote:
moonshadow wrote:Give me liberty or give me death!

What do you suppose Patrick Henry would think upon reading the Patriot Act or seeing what the United States has become? Such questions are worth pondering.


And ponder I have. I'm convinced that he'd be angry and try to do something about it.

Then we'd brand him as a terrorist and execute him.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:14 am

I believe the attention on transgendered people has helped us. A transsexual woman I met in church, she was visiting from Georgia, told me she felt that she felt my openness with my wardrobe choices probably made life for transsexuals in Portland a lot easier. The irony was that our congregation's acceptance of an MTF transsexual encouraged me to think they would probably accept my deviance from the binary fashion norm.

Like it or not Carl, one of the things I learned in that workshop on transgenderism at my last workplace made it crystal clear that we fall under the umbrella term of "transgendered."

It's also clear to me that the conversation wouldn't have made it to the workplace if transsexuals didn't feel emboldened to press the issue. They got to that place when crossdressers decided to come out of the shadows and become the darlings of day-time talkshows. I could go on, but hopefully I've made my point that we have helped to create a virtuous cycle of growing acceptance in the self-identified land of the free.

We've all also made it clear that the workplace is the last frontier in this campaign for fashion freedom. While a number of forum members like you have created toeholds, the fact is, there isn't general acceptance of freestyle fashions in the workplace. And for no better reason than, like at the 6th grade dance, no one wants to make the first move. But once one major corporation takes the plunge, the rest will fall in line like lemmings rushing for the cliffedge. 5 or 10 years after that no one will be able to remember why it was an issue at all.

But let's not let the labels put us off, I don't consider myself a crossdresser, but I accept that by current definitions I am transgendered and that all that means is that I took a step outside the binary norm.
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby moonshadow » Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:44 pm

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:Like it or not Carl, one of the things I learned in that workshop on transgenderism at my last workplace made it crystal clear that we fall under the umbrella term of "transgendered."


I have come to realize that this is true as I have learned more on the subject of transgender issues thanks in part to the bathroom wars. In my own personal situation, I have come to accept that I do have somewhat of a feminine side, to the point of being 50/50, not only in dress, but in overall behavior.

However, moving deeper into that study, I have reached the opinion that gender is one of those things that humanity literally made up as it went along, so I generally try not to worry about what category I fall in. When it's all said and done, I am me.

However, I am conflicted somewhat still, because on principle, I am bothered that this doesn't seem to apply to women. Women need no special protections from the transgender lobby to wear trousers, or engage in other masculine practices at the workplace such as cutting hair very short, not wearing makeup, wearing ties, etc. Women generally don't have to worry about being hassled at businesses and rejected on the grounds of "religious freedom". Nobody thinks a woman who acts like a man is lesbian.... well okay, I take that back, they might, but isn't it interesting how being a lesbian seems to be more accepted in society than being a gay man?

It's like no matter what women do, they can't go wrong! Men on the other hand get the screws put to them at every corner. Note the bathroom wars: With some minor exceptions here and there, most of the issue surrounded M2F trans-women who wanted to use the women's room, not so much F2M trans-men who wanted to use the men's room. The men's room generally is open for all. Again, I know there have been some exceptions, most notably around here, the teenage trans-boy here in Virginia who lost a court case regarding his desire to be treated as a boy. I have to admit, I was surprised that the court didn't back him, seeing as how he started life as a female, was a underage teenager, and STILL didn't get his way! :shock: But I'm a thousand percent certain that if this was a matter of a M2F trans-girl, she wouldn't have made it near as far.

When the modern feminist movement got started, they considered it the high point of feminism to shed the skirts and start wearing men's power suits. They stood atop their hill and shouted to the masses "I am woman - hear me roar!", and we had BETTER regard them as full blown WOMAN... proud and true or else!

Now we come around to some men wanted to explore their less masculine side, some even going so far as to wear skirts, dresses, and other items commonly associated with women and no, we can't just be men, we have to be woman wannabes.

Why can't we just be who we are without all the pigeonholing?

Again, I don't have a personal problem being labeled as gender-fluid, which falls under the transgender umbrella. However I'm not sure how holding the notion that any man who does anything feminine is suddenly transgender is going to help us win over otherwise "manly men" who might want to try out a skirt, and may keep our numbers pretty low.

Just as women feminized trousers, men need to masculinize skirts.

Interesting side note: Firefox has "feminized" built in spell check (no red squiggly) however masculinize apparently isn't even a word! :roll: That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm talking about! It's like nobody is even considering that skirts, dresses, heels, tights, etc CAN be a masculine item!
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby Judah14 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:22 pm

moonshadow wrote:Interesting side note: Firefox has "feminized" built in spell check (no red squiggly) however masculinize apparently isn't even a word! :roll: That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm talking about! It's like nobody is even considering that skirts, dresses, heels, tights, etc CAN be a masculine item!

Simple solution, right-click and select "Add to Dictionary" :lol:
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Re: Has the attention on transgendered individuals helped us

Postby moonshadow » Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:03 pm

Judah14 wrote:
moonshadow wrote:Interesting side note: Firefox has "feminized" built in spell check (no red squiggly) however masculinize apparently isn't even a word! :roll: That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm talking about! It's like nobody is even considering that skirts, dresses, heels, tights, etc CAN be a masculine item!

Simple solution, right-click and select "Add to Dictionary" :lol:


I thought about it, but I want to see if it's ever added on it's own through societal changes.

Back on the topic of transgender attention helping us or hurting, I have to say it just depends on the vibe of the community in question. There are many, especially around here who view transgender people in the same way they once (and still do) view virtually anyone else that challenges the status quo of society, including Martin Luther King (as he was mentioned in the thread... albeit by accident). - And that being, that "transgender people are nothing but queer trouble makers", and that's putting the description NICELY. (I doubt the mods will let me write what is REALLY said about them in these parts....)

I would say that it might has helped in so far as we have learned who would most likely be "man skirt friendly" and who won't. Aside from that, it has served to further divide our nation. There are some who think we are doing wonderful things to advance progression in the U.S., case in point the nice older lady who "thanked me for being me" at Walmart a few weeks ago. Then again, there are scores of people who despise transgender, and anyone who resembles transgender people with every ounce of blood they have, and would probably love to have the opportunity to meet us in a dark alley with no witnesses.

Like virtually every political movement, the transgender community does have it's obnoxious asses that are impossible to please, and they are NOT helping anyone. That is not to say that these transgender people in question are any less human that others, in fact, it goes to show that yes, transgender people ARE human, and subject to mistakes, and ornery and obnoxious behavior just like everyone else. However unlike everyone else, they do not have the sympathy of the majority, and more importantly... law and policy makers.

Case in point.... those in the church molest boys and get caught... we punish those responsible, but not the whole church body. Society says "punish THAT man"

One transgender person takes a picture in a fitting room of a woman and society says "PUNISH THEM ALL!"

And that's not right or fair at all. As I have stated in another thread, it's not right to punish an entire class of people for the actions of one or a few. Punish those responsible. If we want to go down that route, then everybody needs to be in prison, because we all belong to some class of people containing people who have caused trouble for others.
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