A whirlpool of emotions

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Jim2
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A whirlpool of emotions

Post by Jim2 »

I am new to this forum. A week ago I found the forum and starting reading some stuff on it. Then I read the topic, "Skirts that look like shorts on Ebay" and my life has not been the same since, or something like that. I've posted some messages there and some of what I have to say can be found there. To sum up what could be spoken about at length, almost a year ago I bought a silk unisex nightshirt. I loved it and bought two more over the course of the summer, each a little longer and heavier than the first one that was very sheer and short. I loved how they felt. I loved the way they did not separate my legs. When the weather got colder, I did not want to give these qualities up and found some longer and warmer garments. I can't imagine going back to pajamas.

However, it was not completely emotionally easy for me. While this stuff was sold as unisex, these items certainly seemed much like what women wear and not men. What exactly was it about it that made me uneasy. It is not some concern with my sexual or gender orientation, as I feel completely secure in those identities. (I'm a heterosexual married man, 61 years of age.) I think there was (is?) a voice inside me that says it is socially unacceptable. A little strange that I would react that way as I normally hardly care what most other people think is proper. Well, I'm not sure that quite captures it. I think I'm still trying to understand why I've had such difficulty.

A couple of months ago, I took things a step further. I was frustrated with what I found for men and started looking at women's sleepwear. I found some things I liked that were not especially feminine (except that they were unbifurcated) and bought them. (I don't wear this stuff to look like a woman or even because I like how it looks on me, but because of how much more comfortable I feel.) I'm mostly pleased with my purchases. This further step obviously brought more feelings. I started looking on the internet for information about men who had similar interests. That led me to this site.

It had not been lost on me when I first started with nightshirts that the same reasons why I love them would be applicable to skirts and dresses. Up until a week ago I had always just dismissed the idea of wearing such things and assured my wife I would never do so. Well, never say never. The forum topic noted above changed all that. I read about the skirt that looks like shorts and suddenly thought that there was no good reason to avoid wearing such a thing in public. I went from never to starting to think it was inevitable that I would at some time. Since then I've spent lots of time thinking about it, what would I wear (not necessarily the skirt that is like shorts or maybe not exclusively that), where would I do it? Do I really want to do this? What would I likely experience? What's going on in the Us and elsewhere with respect to men wearing skirts? I've scoured the internet and learned tons of stuff. I've also spoken to my wife and a very close friend about it.

I have a wonderful relationship with my wife. We love each other very much. But she is having a tough time with this. She has handled the nightshirt fine, and the women's sleepwear. She has said that I can do whatever I want in the house and she has no problem. But the idea of my going in public has troubled her a lot. She's been a bit all over the place on the subject. She told me she would feel embarrassed by me. I'd be the center of attention wherever I went and people would all think I was a transvestite. Then she backtracks a bit and tells me that I should do what I want to do and not let her feelings stop me from doing what I want to do. At first I thought that talking to her about what I've learned about men wearing skirts would help her, but now she has made it clear that she absolutely doesn't want to hear about it, though we are able to discuss the emotions we are each experiencing, so communication continues. I'm not worried that this could break up our marriage.

Meanwhile, earlier today (Sunday), I spoke with a very close long-term friend. When I told him that I wore a nightshirt and it had led me to consider wearing a skirt, his response quite surprised me. He said he had had several nightshirts and didn't see what the issue was. He contra-dances (a specifically New England kind of folk dance, and a long time ago I used to do it regularly myself) and said that men often wear skirts to contra-dances. He said that I should do what I want to do and not worry about what people think. I told him about my wife's reaction. He said that I should only concern myself with two things - be careful with work and be considerate of my wife's feelings. Otherwise, don't worry about what anyone else thinks. All of this was very helpful, even if no different than what I was already doing or planning to do.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here, but it seems like a very safe place to discuss my feelings and what I might do. And given that I can't discuss it with my wife anymore, I could probably use a place to get feedback.

By the way, I did order one of those skirts, and it will arrive tomorrow (well, given the time, later today).
happykilt
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by happykilt »

Well, most interesting introduction. I think I share a lot of those feelings. Have used unbifurcated garments at home both female and male (galabejas, sarongs) type. Now I am getting to use kilts outside, hoping it will be a bit easier than a "normal" skirt. Done a few outings in a kilt but am still collecting courage to do it more. I do not try to look a female, I just like the unbifurcated garment and am happy to be a man wearing one.
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norstdresses
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by norstdresses »

Welcome Jim2

this is the perfect place to share with men worldwide about their experiences and meanings. I am wearing only dresses everyday. Have a look on my Pintarest board (Men wearing dresses) some pics of dresses what I use to wear.
good luck and enjoy the freedom of wearing skirts and dresses
my shorter casual dress.gif
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kingfish
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by kingfish »

My slightly veiled suggestion:
The number one crossover garment is the kilt.
Of all the un-bifurcated bottoms out there, they have the least association with that gender variance stigma which is putting off your better half.
Start with one of them, and you don't have to cough up the $400+ for the authentic Scottish bespoke garment hand sewn to your measurements. Sportkilts have been making some inexpensive (and doggone comfy) kilts for a couple of decades, and Utilikilts have been rocking it for about a decade and a half shortly followed by Amerikilts. 5.11 tactical is slowly offering theirs on a more regular basis. I'd also hazard a 50% chance that at any given highland games or renaissance fair here in New England, you'll find someone hawking a sport kilt (or equivalent) in their booth, ready to wear and under $100.

Of all my skirts (etc), my kilts are the only ones my wife never had a problem with.
Jim2
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by Jim2 »

In reply to kingfish, I also thought it was a great idea when I first thought of it, but the reaction from my wife is that she really hates kilts. She said she once saw a couple of men wearing them at some event where it was probably appropriate and thought they looked disgusting. She seems to have an especial loathing of them, though it might work out for me going out in public alone, if I choose to do that.

I just got my skirt that looks like shorts. I'd prefer shorter ones without the cargo pockets, but it's pretty comfortable. I've decided to wear it around the house and yard, and I'm doing that now (I work at home most of the time). Not sure beyond that.

Thanks for the suggestion.
dillon
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by dillon »

Welcome, Jim2. I suggest asking yourself each time you wear a skirt or dress what it is about a piece of cloth that could possibly be legitimately emasculating? If a clothier was to make the same garment, and sell it on different sides of the aisle in the department store, with pink or blue tags, would that make it any safer to wear? I suppose that my contention is that freedom begins between the ears.

Few of us are totally liberated in regard to our fashion choices because we all fear, to some extent, the reactions of others. I am pretty much freely skirted in the social realm, but I understand the limits of what I can wear with regard to my professional life and still be productive in my interactions with the very conservative clientele I serve. But, in time, most of us find that our fears are exaggerated in our own minds. It is perfectly natural to harbor them, but you will only taste the freedom you crave once you begin to conquer them.

I won't deny that for most of us, life is a balancing act. We don't need to hurt ourselves or the ones we love simply for an exercise in self-expression, but we also have the right to expect those who profess to love us to bend a bit and show some regard for our wants and indulgences. And, obviously, there are few indulgences a man could have that are as harmless as simply altering his attire. Modern society does have a double standard for gender dress codes, no question, but it isn't a law chiseled in stone. Would we question the sexual orientation of a woman because she used men's boxers, or undershirts, or ties as an element in her wardrobe?

For men, though, it seems as if the fact that we are at all interested in what we wear is like some huge question mark tattooed on our foreheads. But half the debate is internal, and once you evolve internally to treat clothing with the casual disregard it deserves, the individual you, that unique person that no one else can duplicate, can live and breathe and thrive naturally. You are who you are, after all is said and done, and you will be that person regardless of whether your legs are girded in two cloth tubes or in one; let us hope that our loved ones can understand that as well as we do, and resist the urge to pigeonhole us and label us based on that proclivity. We have to communicate the fact that we are much more than our clothing; it reflects only an element of what composes each of us inside.

Again, welcome!

Dillon
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
Jim2
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by Jim2 »

Hi Dillon. Thanks for the reply. I agree that freedom begins between the ears. I've wondered if the social norm against men wearing skirts can radically alter. Could men wearing skirts change like men wearing earrings did? I think and hope so. I wonder what other people think of that idea. Meanwhile, I think I just need to be loving to my wife and let her sort out her feelings on her own.
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by NH Dan »

Another New Englander, welcome. I was once a Mass_ as they refer to people from Massachusetts here in New Hampshire not so long ago. I have only discovered this site a few months ago and share so many of your feelings. I do think that a trip to the Highland Games in New Hampshire this fall would be a good idea, just to get a lay of the land. Purchased my first Utility Kilt there, started borrowing a few of my wife's skirts to wear around the house and just got a 5.11 that I think is great. No into going out into public yet but think that could happen some day. Anyways, welcome.
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by NH Dan »

I meant to mention that the LL Bean catalogue has great quality mens nughtshirts.
Jim2
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by Jim2 »

NH Dan wrote:Another New Englander, welcome. I was once a Mass_ as they refer to people from Massachusetts here in New Hampshire not so long ago. I have only discovered this site a few months ago and share so many of your feelings. I do think that a trip to the Highland Games in New Hampshire this fall would be a good idea, just to get a lay of the land. Purchased my first Utility Kilt there, started borrowing a few of my wife's skirts to wear around the house and just got a 5.11 that I think is great. No into going out into public yet but think that could happen some day. Anyways, welcome.
The Highland games are an interesting idea, in more ways than one. Though I have no Scottish or Irish background, I happen to be a very strong lover of Scottish and Irish music, and Alasdair Fraser and Natalie Haas are great. Not sure my wife would come along, but I might get a friend who also likes the music (and who knows about my interest in skirts).

My wife is having lots of trouble with the idea of a skirt for me. Being sensitive to her feelings now takes precedence over any movement forward with skirts for me. I envy you being able to wear your wife's skirts. Surprisingly, my wife suggested we get matching sarongs to wear to the beach (only - which is fine). She sees it as being as if we are simply wearing a towel, which is not strange at a beach.

What's a "5.11"?
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by skirted_in_SF »

Jim2 wrote:What's a "5.11"?
See the 5-11 tactical kilt thread. 8)
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by crfriend »

Jim2 wrote:My wife is having lots of trouble with the idea of a skirt for me. Being sensitive to her feelings now takes precedence over any movement forward with skirts for me. I envy you being able to wear your wife's skirts. Surprisingly, my wife suggested we get matching sarongs to wear to the beach (only - which is fine). She sees it as being as if we are simply wearing a towel, which is not strange at a beach.
I think the best avenue in this situation is to elucidate why you feel the way about skirts the way you do, and very gently hint that it's not going to change what you are, but may change who you may seem to be in positive ways.

The what of my fiber is still the same thing as it was before I took up skirt-wearing a decade or so ago; the what can change over time, but it seems to change very slowly -- almost glacially -- which is probably a good thing. So I am substantially the same bloke my wife married a quarter-century ago. What has changed, though, albeit subtly, is who I am. Observed qualities of this are that I stand taller now than I did before adopting skirts and that I'm visibly more confident than before. I'm also more relaxed, and that's likely down to the confidence aspect. Sapphire also says I'm a lot more attractive now than I was when we met, which is always a plus.

Wives and significant others tend to be scared of what the fallout to them will be if they're seen with "their man" who happens to be non-traditionally-attired. This is entirely understandable both rationally and emotionally; the key, I think, is to connect the emotional dots in such a way that resistance to the notion not only becomes meaningless but instead a negative. In my case, once I got over the hurdle of getting out the front door and taking my place in the world whilst wearing skirts, the overall status of things improved dramatically. Far from being shoved into a box that I detested, I found that clothes could be fun and could be used to "say things"; this shorted my old notion that "clothes are there for the sole purposes of covering nakedness and staying warm" right to ground and brought out a playful, experimental side of me that Sapphire had never seen outside the computing realm. I laid more than a few "style eggs" on the path, but was supported during the time as she saw how things were evolving. I cherished the positive comments and learnt from the negative ones -- she was criticizing the outfit, not me, which was huge.

In my case, the tiny little box of "accepted" styles for guys had robbed me of any interest in looking good, and that took a toll on Sapphire. Once the walls of the box were down and safely stomped into the dirt where they belonged in the first place what emerged was something that she was happy about precisely because I was happy for it -- and it doesn't get any better than that. But, it's a big jump for some.

I rather suspect my aesthetic is pretty well established at this point, but I still occasionally go off on tangents. For instance, I've been fascinated with the notion of palazzo pants since the 1990s, and have recently acquired a pair -- and I love 'em. This does not mean I'm going to abandon skirts -- not by a long shot -- but rather that I have something else in my arsenal to play with.

The ultimate upshot of this is that Sapphire has a more complete, more functional partner than she had before. She's got somebody that isn't just willing to challenge other folks to intellectual debate, but to also engage others at the visual level (and I admit that it's a lot of fun to do both at the same time). She's got somebody who is self-assured, but not cocky about it. And, she's got somebody that gets attention for two; that's always a good thing.
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Jim2
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by Jim2 »

crfriend - I don't have time to respond now, but I just want to say I love your response. Thanks.
skirtingtheissue
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by skirtingtheissue »

Hi from another New Englander, Jim2!

I'm glad you found this forum, because as I'm sure you have found out, there is LOTS of great information and food for thought in the many topics throughout the site. It will take you LOTS of time to peruse relevant sections, but you will find lots of discussion about the issues you bring up.

I was going to suggest the kilt route to skirting, then read that your wife hates kilts. Is that the traditional or modern kind, or both? For me, Mountain Hardwear's "Elkommando" kilt was my "first step" in wearing a skirt in public while accompanied by my wife. She saw the enjoyment I was having, and heard me get compliments, and from then on has had no problems with me wearing skirts inside or outside the house, provided they don't have an overwhelmingly feminine character.

I think skirting will become universally acceptable in a way similar to men's earrings. Society does change; the question is, how fast, and whether we will see it in our lifetimes. In my own little way I'm trying to accelerate that change by being in a skirt whenever possible and showing both men and women that guys can wear skirts and still be normal members of society and still be, inside, the same person as before.

But maybe, in a similar way to crfriend's experience, I'm not the same person as before, because I also feel more relaxed, confident, deep-down happy, and true to myself when wearing a skirt. I feel "This is me, and I like being me!"

So I wish you success in your journey into the land of skirts and hope that the Skirt Café can help turn the "whirlpool of emotions" into a positive life force. Keep us posted on your experiences.
When I heard about skirting, I jumped in with both feet!
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Re: A whirlpool of emotions

Post by Sinned »

Crl & skrtngthss, thanks as you have hit a similar chord with me in that I also feel a lot more contented, relaxed and deep-down happy about being skirted and the event on Friday has really boosted my confidence to know that there are those out there who aren't judgemental, that can appreciate what it takes as a man to step out of the front door in a skirt. In one of her harangues MOH said that I had changed and I took it as a negative challenge but I can now see it from the positive aspect and yes, I have changed but I think for the better. MOH may not agree which is probably why she said it but then I tried being normal once ....
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