How do you feel when...

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Milfmog
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Re: How do you feel when...

Post by Milfmog »

skirtingtoday wrote:...there are more Giant Pandas in Scotland than Conservative MP's in Westminster
Are there really more than 303 Pandas in Scotland? Please don't do a Salmond and misstate your statistics to try and make a point. If you meant Conservative MPs with seats in Scotland you should say that.

As for facts, I'd be somewhat hesitant about automatically believing anything published by a politician or one of their supporting organisations (on either side of the argument). Wikipedia is only marginally better as it is simply an uncontrolled mish-mash of reported information of frequently dubious accuracy.

Have fun,


Ian.
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skirtingtoday
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Re: How do you feel when...

Post by skirtingtoday »

Ian,

I of course meant Scottish Conservative MP's in Westminster of which there is One and there are 2 Giant Pandas in Scotland :D

Previous post now updated to confirm this - his name BTW is David Mundell - and the pandas are called Tian Tian (meaning "sweetie") and Yang Guang meaning "sunshine" :D
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on" - Winston Churchill.
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Milfmog
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Re: How do you feel when...

Post by Milfmog »

skirtingtoday wrote:Ian,

I of course meant Scottish Conservative MP's in Westminster of which there is One and there are 2 Giant Pandas in Scotland :D
I know this. I also know that you only have the giant pandas because they were given to you and so can suggest a simple solution: we could give you a load more Conservative MP's. Would another 302 be sufficient? Please say "yes", you're welcome to them. Come to that, you're also welcome to any other MP's you'd like. :D

Have fun,


Ian.
Do not argue with idiots; they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Cogito ergo sum - Descartes
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skirtingtoday
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Re: How do you feel when...

Post by skirtingtoday »

Milfmog wrote:[I also know that you only have the giant pandas because they were given to you and so can suggest a simple solution: we could give you a load more Conservative MP's. Would another 302 be sufficient? Please say "yes", you're welcome to them. Come to that, you're also welcome to any other MP's you'd like. :D

Have fun,

Ian.
:lol: :D

But we do have a plan for that as well - see this article from Oct 2013 in the Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildli ... bears.html

You'd better warn those MP's who dare to come North :D

And in reality, would any MP's wife really desire to move away from Harrod's?

Ross
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on" - Winston Churchill.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" - Joseph Goebbels
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Milfmog
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Re: How do you feel when...

Post by Milfmog »

skirtingtoday wrote:And in reality, would any MP's wife really desire to move away from Harrod's
:D Perhaps if Jenners advertised a bit more...

Have fun,


Ian.
Do not argue with idiots; they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Cogito ergo sum - Descartes
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Big and Bashful
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Re: How do you feel when...

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I must admit that I thought Salmond wanted a nuclear free Scotland. That means removing Trident, the V boats, the A boats and the T boats which haven't started to relocate up here yet. If they are all sent South then Faslane has no reason to be kept open, apart from a few minesweepers.
I like the last paragraph of that article, which speculates on a billion pounds which could be saved from the Trident replacement project and invested in the West of Scotland. Hang on a miute Alex, that is UK money being invested in UK deterrent, if we decide not to replace Trident, the UK could make use of the money saved in many ways. But wait, a thought passes through the canyons of my mind; If Scotland remains part of the UK then some of that bounty could wing it's way up here and be invested. However if Scotland goes independant then why would it get any of that money?

Sorry, it's just that every time I hear Salmond open his mouth inconsistancies come out of it, either that or wild promises with nothing to back them up.

On the finance side, I know Scotland has a lot of great exports, but I typed that last post last night having just seen on the news that Scotland had just been 12 billion in the red, mainly due to the reduction in the oil and gas revenues. I also know that the oil industry say that is because they are making major investments in the future and indeed that will have dented their profits, so hopefully that is a temporary blip, nothing more.

Oh, if Salmond 'n' co. are happy to keep nuclear submarines on the Clyde but get rid of nuclear weapons, I would have expected to have heard that before now, being one of the people directly affected by the decisions, I suppose I will find out eventually, one way or the other!
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skirtingtoday
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Re: How do you feel when...

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In the Independence White paper, there are numerous references to removal of Trident but only a little about nuclear-powered submarines. There are a few references though on the search word "submarine"

FAQ 328
Will the armament depot at Coulport remain?
Our commitment is to securing the earliest safe withdrawal of Trident from an independent Scotland. This includes the
removal of all elements of the current system, including the missiles and warheads which are stored for the Vanguard
submarine fleet at Coulport.

FAQ 329
Would an independent Scotland continue to allow Faslane to host non-nuclear armed Royal Navy submarines, such as the Astute and Trafalgar, which are nuclear-powered?
Our priority for Faslane will be to ensure the speediest and safest possible transition to its future as a conventional naval base serving the defence needs of an independent Scotland. This transition will require detailed discussion with the Government of the rest of the UK on a range of issues.
The Scottish Government strongly favours a conventional approach to Scotland’s defence, with Faslane being Scotland’s
main conventional naval base. We do not see the continued basing of the Astute or Trafalgar fleets at Faslane, beyond the
necessary transition period, to be in Scotland’s interests. The Westminster Government has signalled its intention to
locate all of the Royal Navy’s submarine fleet at a single base. The current proposal is for this to be HMNB Clyde. In the event
of independence, it would be for the rest of the UK to decide whether to relocate its submarine fleet to the Royal Navy
submarine base at HMNB Devonport or to another location.


So we are both half-right. Whilst Trident is the absolute priority to be removed (and it has dozens of references in the Paper), the final intention is indeed to remove all nuclear powered anything (including submarines and also power stations) but through negotiations with Westminster. There may well be a (compromise) middle ground of Westminster paying to continue to use the these bases for nuclear-powered but without allowing Trident or any other warhead developed in the future. I would be OK with that.
I think the idea of nuclear power stations removal is wrong as we cannot ever be fully dependent on wind, sun, water, and hydro powered schemes and will need a "back-up" system for when the lights go out when there is no coal/oil/gas stations left.

Also the intention is to maintain the bases at Faslane and Coulport as major naval bases in Scotland so unemployment on a vast scale as portrayed by polititians would not be an issue would it? I would also be OK with that.

Finally page 246 of the White Paper reads thus:-
The transition of Faslane from a submarine base to Scotland’s main naval base and joint force headquarters will be managed
gradually: personnel and equipment will be brought into the Scottish defence forces and infrastructure will be developed,
while the personnel and equipment remaining within the Royal Navy are relocated by the Ministry of Defence.

The Scottish Government intends the transition to be complete within ten years. The transitional arrangements will support
both the day to day operations and the workforce levels at the base. We will retain the capacity for shared arrangements
with the rest of the UK and other allies, recognising Faslane’s excellent deep water facilities and its geographical position.

There are currently 6,700 military and civilian jobs at HMNB Clyde. Through its role as a main conventional naval base and Joint Forces HQ, this Scottish Government expects that, at the conclusion of transitional arrangements, the number of Scottish military personnel at Faslane will approximately match military numbers there currently. Those military personnel will be supported by a significant number of civilian personnel. During the transitional period large numbers of personnel from the rest of
the UK will also be based there. In addition, work to reconfigure Faslane as a conventional naval base is expected to involve
major construction activity, and related jobs, in the area. There are a range of other defence facilities around Scotland
used by NATO and the UK, such as the weapon ranges in the Hebrides and the training area around Cape Wrath. The Scottish Government expects these to continue to be used after independence, following discussions with the rest of the UK and allies.


Not sure if that helps any but hopefully food for thought.

Ross
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on" - Winston Churchill.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" - Joseph Goebbels
Big and Bashful
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Re: How do you feel when...

Post by Big and Bashful »

That isn't too different to how I thought it would happen. I am interested to see what Scotland is going to do with a naval base once the UK ships head South, I suppose Scotland could order some ships from the shipyards on the Clyde, Scotland hasn't got a Navy but it has great capabilities to build a nice new one. I love it, the RN with two shiny new carriers and no planes, with Scotland next door with two empty Naval bases.
There is another great earner for Scotland, as far as I know, the only decent ship building facilities are on the Clyde, as the Government not long ago decided not to keep propping up the Southern yards. So when the Royal Navy need more ships, they are probably going to have to use the Scottish shipyards. I would love to see Scotland's industrial base being built up again, actually not just Scotlands but the whole of the UK.
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Re: How do you feel when...

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Just a thought - I have noticed that Gordon Brown has come out of hibernation and is becoming more vociferous. I hope that if Scotland do become independent that old sour face becomes Chancellor and wreaks as much havoc on the Scottish economy as he die on the British one! No, not really, but you must admit that he was the worst Chancellor that we ever had from his selling gold reserves at the bottom of the market to his raid on pension funds that will never, ever be repaired.
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