Men in skirts ... on french Tv

[CJFMix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTeno_VpQHc

[iain]

Hey, great clip. That presenter is hot! Having grown up in Canada I don't speak a word of French (it's not a bilingual country at all, just an English country pandering to a mischievous and rebellious minority in an attempt to placate it. This is why all the signs and cereal boxes have to be in english and french -- of course, if it was really bilingual, either one would do!)

So as a result I can't understand a word of it but it looked intelligent and respectful. That guy Eric Quan looks like a good spokesman as well. Merci bien!

[kiltair]

Most interesting TV spot!
The only thing I didn't like was when the spokesman told us that man would want to wear a skirt to be in touch with their feminine side.. yakkes!
And **of course** the interviewer had to ask Eric what he's wearing under his skirt. Are there really no more original questions?

The skirt-designer is Belgian. He offers skirts for sale on his website: http://www.brunoloodts.be for 99 euros.... (delivery within europe only)

Jan

[sambuka]

First off, kudos to Bob and the staff of moderators for setting up and being host to one of the most convivial and polite forum I have ever witnessed.

Now, sorry Bob, but I must respond to Iain about this, and it has nothing to do with skirts or kilts:

Having grown up in Canada I don't speak a word of French (it's not a bilingual country at all, just an English country pandering to a mischievous and rebellious minority in an attempt to placate it. This is why all the signs and cereal boxes have to be in english and french -- of course, if it was really bilingual, either one would do!)

So as a result I can't understand a word of it but it looked intelligent and respectful. That guy Eric Quan looks like a good spokesman as well. Merci bien!

Well Iain, I guess being considered mischievous and rebellious depends on one’s relative position in the debate. For example, while Washington and Gandhi were certainly considered as rebellious by Britain, they were heroes for their kin. The Scotland National Party is probably considered as mischievous by Britain, it nevertheless won the last election, so that opinion is probably not shared by those voters who supported it.

I could go on endlessly with these types of examples, but I think you got the point, and it is that the “colonial empire” – the Brits in these examples - had to get booted out of the land so that the locals could run their country the way they saw fit.

Now, getting back to Canada: did you know that in Montréal – with more than 75% of the population being French in 1975, you could not be served in French in places like Eaton’s, Sears, etc… Also, there was, in pretty well all big businesses, a glass ceiling (much like the one women felt) preventing French people from acceding to the highest positions. Without going into a history lesson, let’s just say that the locals decided, starting in the 60’s, to take matters into their own hands, and force the rest of the country to reckon with its presence, hence the federal bilingualism promulgated by then Prime Minister Trudeau in the 70s. I am not saying that everything went smoothly, but please, when giving an opinion on something you obviously have so much bias and so little information, be prepared for a rebuttal.

In conclusion, I find it quite disturbing and rather unfortunate that on the one hand, your posts are about tolerance and respect for a visible minority - guys in skirts - and on the other, you seem quite prejudiced about folks whose language you don’t even speak. Walk a mile in our shoes, then you can comment about what it is like to be a minority in my country.

Rant over.

The Bukaman

[sambuka]

I would be remiss if did not also comment on the clip...

It is very good, and certainly does a good job of advocating the message of men in skirts.

[Charlie]

A good clip - I'm tempted to buy one of his skirts, they look good.

It was interesting to watch the reaction of the female interviewer during the piece. She started with laughter (shock? - I did exactly the same when I encountered my first man in a skirt, but that was before I saw the light ) but after a few minutes she'd got used the idea and was taking an interest - or is that just her being professional?

Charlie

[Bob]

Iain's comment was, unfortunately, disrespectful to French Canadians. Sambuka delivered a relatively level-headed repsonse to this disrespect.

SkirtCafe has a policy of toleration, and that includes toleration of national identity. Due to its international nature and focus on gaining acceptance for skirts as men's fashion, SkirtCafe cannot take sides on issues of nationality or politics. However, SkirtCafe expects that respect for others will be maintained at all times.

I expect that we will see no further discussion of Canadian politics.

And Sambuka.... Welcome to SkirtCafe! I hope you enjoy your time here. You might notice that cozy seat by the window is a great spot to hang out for a while.

[Peter v]

Iain's comment was, unfortunately, disrespectful to French Canadians. Sambuka delivered a relatively level-headed repsonse to this disrespect.

SkirtCafe has a policy of toleration, and that includes toleration of national identity. Due to its international nature and focus on gaining acceptance for skirts as men's fashion, SkirtCafe cannot take sides on issues of nationality or politics. However, SkirtCafe expects that respect for others will be maintained at all times.

I expect that we will see no further discussion of Canadian politics.

And Sambuka.... Welcome to SkirtCafe! I hope you enjoy your time here. You might notice that cozy seat by the window is a great spot to hang out for a while.

Yeh, right next to me, and what's his name. i like the window seat. Can't see out of the window, condensing. Outside it's cold and dim, In the cafe it's always warm and cosy. Who's taking orders? Two beer please.

Peter v

[Peter v]

Very interesting site.
I like the image of the slender man in white. The stripe tights look good. and the whole line is clean. I think that is a good ""look"" and definitely not femme. Just have to get used to seeing men dressed that way and look with an open unbiased mind.

Also the long black skirt along with the slender making tank top is very masculine, no, looks very pleasing. I myself don't shy from putting down a masculine image in a skirt, but it is definately not a must. Just look good.

I'm not sure about the prices, but it is a good thing that aparently more desiners are producing men's skirts. Putting men in skirts, no matter of origin, ( the skirts) on the map.

Peter v

[Sarongman]

Welcome sambuka, That was a well phrased and logically put argument. As for history, well, many injustices were perpetrated by the eventual winners of conflicts and written out of the history books. I am pretty sure Ziggy is of Afrikaaner heritage and will also have a race memory of great injustices done in the Boer War by the British and Empire troops. I was lucky, as a 17 year old, to meet a veteran of that war who was, as a result of that experience, anti British. His greatest disgust was for the setting up of concentration camps, where the women and children were interned, to break the will of the Boer troops (volunteer farmers) who were, otherwise, too hard a nut to crack. They were superb shots at long range and used the lie of the land to great effect.

BTW I suppose there is little regard there for our James Cook, who surveyed the passage for the seige of Quebec.

[sambuka]

Bob

Thanks for re-affirming this forum's credo and for your welcome;

Peter

Having been in Leewarden and the surroundings a few times in the past, I got to really appreciate the Netherlands. As a Canadian, I remain amazed at how much your countrymen and women - not only to older ones, but also the ones in their early 20s - still remember Canada's helpful role in Netherland's WW2 history. To tell you the truth, when in a pub, it was always an almost impossible task trying to pay for the beers my buddies and I had, because there was always somebody (or a group) telling the waiter that the round for the Canadians was on them. So, please, this one's on me...

Sarongman

Thanks for the kind words.

I guess that every country has its injustices, its heroes and zeroes. I always wanted to read about the Boer war - Canada also sent some troops there way way back.

Ref J. Cook, I know the name, but he's not an important figure in our history. It's probably different in the rest of the country - history, it seems, is taught quite differently, depending on where you fall on the race / language / religion line.

[iain]

You know, we here are expected to have strong opinions about fashion, but about nothing else!

I'm sorry if my casual comments about my very real experience of my growing-up years in Canada have offended anyone and therefore are not to be expressed. In WW2, conscription was enforced in Quebec, while voluntary enlistment was the norm in the rest of Canada. Perhaps this caused ill feeling or perhaps it was the result of existing ill-feeling, who can say? Not me.

It's a strange world, I'll admit, but I don't think you can go through life without expecting to upset anyone, at all, on any subject. I remember a while back I started a big hoo-hah here by commenting on someone's massive SUV and saying they were dangerous. I was shot down by all comers, called all kinds of names. The aggression was, I guess, just part of the discussion.

Three weeks later the owner and his passengers narrowly escaped becoming opinionated quadroplegics when his massive SUV rolled over on a lightly curving road. C'est la vie!

[sambuka]

Iain

Using the conscription analogy without any context had only one purpose – to show how unpatriotic French Canadians were. Yet, there were at least dozens of examples you could have used to make your point about our core difference, but you chose that one, which provides even more evidence that your “strong opinion”, based on anecdotic experience as a child, is nothing more than strong prejudice.

Racism, its gentler cousin bigotry, or its even paler imitation, intolerance, all of them acquired flaws, are really hard to fight against, because logical arguments are of no use.

By the way, my father spent 1 ½ year in Britain defending your country in WW2, long enough anyway to watch 151 of his squadron mates get killed – he was one of only 13 survivors of the original group, and surprise, he volunteered. For my part, I did the Gulf war… Rebellious and mischievous? Sure, why not, if it really makes you happy.

[iain]

No, you chose to interpret it that way.. another interpretation is that the government fostered unrest by forcing conscription onto the french while not forcing it on the english. The secessionist movement started after WW2 and not before, so this is a perfectly valid interpretation.

The government of Canada has not done itself any favours, it has to be said. Trudeau was a guy I really liked, and he was French. Chretien, on the other hand, was a thug, a street fighting guy. I didn't like him, but that was because of his personality, his attitude, and it isn't racist or bigoted. He seemed to me to be a nasty piece of work, but Trudeau was an elegant and charismatic guy who spoke his mind. The trouble is, you can't say what you think these days because everything has to be bland enough to not offend anyone, anywhere, at any time.

You know, being sensitive is ok, but at least be even handed enough to recognise it! Canadian politics will come as a surprise to people here, because they assume all Canadians are bland and likeable, which is generally the case. The French have not at all been happy about being part of Canada and I believe fairly recently all english-owned corporations have had to leave the province.

It doesn't matter what I think, and I wish people would stop acting as if whatever any one person says is so important. I have opinions, but that's all they are. I also lost relatives in wars, probably we all did. It's not known, for example, that Russia lost 40m men in WW2, and people still poke fun at them now. But they don't react angrily.. they are often amused at British and American films which portray the West as being the saviours of the world through that war.

Their self discipline and gentle acceptance of this gross distortion of reality is a lesson for everyone who gets so touchy about the least deprecating remark. My father went to Quebec and came back amazed that every time he asked for directions, they pretended not to understand even the most basic of English.

It is not a bi-lingual country, not at all. It reminds me of when I went to Dublin to work, and I was reminded by a friend who was a radio DJ there, not to speak about sex, religion, or politics. Because there was no way to avoid the ensuing explosion of beliefs. I made the mistake once about asking someone's opinion about the IRA -- having just got out of a taxi cab where the driver explained he'd had to shut his fur shop because of repeated raids by the IRA where they literally cleaned him out.

I was nearly attacked by a woman at the table -- her friends had to hold her back -- who accused me of being an insensitive British pig. She was screaming at me for about five minutes. Kilty, a black guy in the US, was offended when people made comments about the perceived social status of blacks. A woman here was offended when people made what she saw as deprecating remarks about women. I don't believe either of these people were really defended.. kilty, as far as I know, left the group because nobody backed down.

Sorry if I offended you.. it's my nature to speak my mind and that isn't gonig to change. So long as you don't drive an SUV I still reckon we could get along! But it's much easier to close a thread and ban a member than it is to air a perfectly stimulating bit of debate. What is so frightening to people about airing an opinion?

[Sylvain]

I'm sorry if my casual comments about my very real experience of my growing-up years in Canada have offended anyone and therefore are not to be expressed. In WW2, conscription was enforced in Quebec, while voluntary enlistment was the norm in the rest of Canada. Perhaps this caused ill feeling or perhaps it was the result of existing ill-feeling, who can say? Not me.

Please do not lie. Conscription was enforced all over Canada, and prior to it, more French-Canadians enlisted freely than did English-Canadians (relative to their numbers). But it is true that French-Canadians (we named ourselves Canadiens it that time, and the other were Anglais...) didn't want conscrption. We didn't want to go overseas to fight for the British Empire which despised us, and in a foreign language.
Don''t forget we were here first!