Appealing to clothing stores

[boca]

I was noting how there are not too many main-stream clothing shops that sell skirts and kilts geared to men.
There are a few brick-and-morter retail stores out there like Utilikilts in Seattle. However, Utilikilts is the manufacturer and I don't know of any venue outside of their store and booths at faires that sell them.

I was thinking it might be cool to try and persuade small-chain mom and pop clothing stores to stock modern kilts and male skirts. This would cause many men to do double takes and think when they see the kilt/skirt rack in the men's department.

I think that if we were able to push clothing retailers to include these unbifurcated clothes in the men's department, it would cause some stirr among their clients. Obviously it may not take off right away, but if men started finding these racks in various clothing stores more and more, it would give them an excuse to wear them. It would also make it much easier for them to be bought.

Also, they wouldn't have to just be modern kilts or specifically male skirts. They could be skirts in general that have a masculine look to them.

Any ideas on who/where to contact?

[Bravehearts.us]

I would think that ALL the kilt makers, especially the non-traditional ones, are working for and hoping for that day along with many of us. Like any business it takes a while to get on your feet. But when you are trying to take something that is not a norm and make it one, it has to be especially difficult and frustrating. Individually we just have to keep plugging away to change the perception of society and support the manufacturers as much as we possibly can.
Lar

[DanR]

These people are known as buyers. They purchase the big lots of whatever they sell in their clients' stores from the original manufacturer or from a broker.

Check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0130254398/sr=8-1/qid=1155774681/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-3893679-3003339?ie=UTF8
Apparel Product Development

This will provide you with a glimpse into how the industry works.
Next you'll have to start talking to buyers with a sample case and what's called a "look book." Good look books cost $thousands to create. Then you'll have to provide hard numbers to support the business case that selling mens skirts or kilts is a profitable business proposition and that it would be worth her (the buyer's) time and very expensive floor space.

Your best bet is to start attending the trade shows that happen in different parts of the country at different times of the year. Try this book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/079319 ... F8&s=books
The Fashion Designer Survival Guide
to get acquainted with the process and for some insider tips like how much it costs per square foot to maintain a retail storefront. (Basically is starts out saying, "First, get yourself a big pile of cash...")
The trade shows aren't for folks off the street; You'll have to provide decent credentials verifying yourself as the real deal. Then you'll have to cough up the entrance fee and talk a pretty good game.

But before you get all that excited, consider this question very soberly:

To anyone reading this post, how many skirts and/or kilts did you buy last year? And I'm talking made specifically for men, not thrift shops or second-hand stores or in the women's section of a department or chain store. How many? One? Three? Fifteen?

It's all in the numbers and the plain fact is that men don't spend money on clothes. Unless she sees numbers that can justify writing a nice, fat check to a given supplier, your buyer won't be convinced. And you won't see mens skirts or neo-traditional kilts at your favorite strip mall.

[Brandy]

But before you get all that excited, consider this question very soberly:

To anyone reading this post, how many skirts and/or kilts did you buy last year? And I'm talking made specifically for men, not thrift shops or second-hand stores or in the women's section of a department or chain store. How many? One? Three? Fifteen?

It's all in the numbers and the plain fact is that men don't spend money on clothes. Unless she sees numbers that can justify writing a nice, fat check to a given supplier, your buyer won't be convinced. And you won't see mens skirts or neo-traditional kilts at your favorite strip mall.

This is where the internet comes in. The internet is not limited by brick and mortar walls. Where there is not enough business to keep a single 'mens' skirt on a rack in a single store there is enough business to keep our internet suppliers in business.

Do you think Utililikilts would be in business today if the internet did not exist? That's one reason why I no longer advocated trying to get the big box stores or the chain stores to stock a 'mens' line of skirt's. First they barely exist, then getting skirts in large enough quanitity to be worth while, etc...

Right now I vote to support our online internet manufactures. Quality is better to begin with. I have a limited number of styles I buy. I get long skirt lengths from the 'other' rack. The rest goes to internet suppliers.

After the internet suppliers create a market then the majors will jump in. As Dan pointed out men DO NOT recycle their closet on a seasonal basis. So it will take a LOT of men buying skirts/kilts to make a business case. A very common remark I hear "Oh I have a Utilikit at home in the closet", why are you not weraing it? Daaa Duhnn know ... special occasion. .... well the sun is shining, looks special enough to me.

Or my favorite remark to "why?" 'cause I'm not at work.

-- Brandy

[Bravehearts.us]

This is excellent advice and information. It also sends a wake-up to everyone. Thrift shops are fine but buying from them doesn’t help any of you guys that make the MUGs.
Lar

[nitrox]

I just remembered something after reading Brandy's comment about big box retailers.

Most big companies (like large ships) don't have the ability to change direction in their marketing extremely quick. The smaller ones however do, and they do it often but can't pull in the money because they're not as big, and can't do volume.

The internet is a great thing, but you have to have the ability to advertise somewhere that people will notice. Maybe using traditional means, but maybe not; since it's not a traditional thing. They also have to be within price range or people will think it's a novelty. Furthermore, you have to make it appealing to the target audience, possibly by making it appealing to the say other gender who you assume most are trying to go after. If women accept it, then hey, "I'll get in it, if it gets me women" or something similar. Yet another thing that might have more widely marketable audience is possibly marketing to people other than the super tough looking. Making an advert that expresses how posh something like this is. A man going to a nice party wearing his new skirt he bought from X company and all the women admiring it. Even most of the women walking from the traditional blokes wearing traditional clothes to the man in a skirt, and then put a catch phrase in it telling people they can dress traditionally and have traditional lives, but you have to risk something to get something - wouldn't you like what I have (something of that nature)..

[Departed Member]

A few years ago, in the UK, Burtons (used to be a Mens only clothes shop) and at least one other retailer sold (or had on display) what were referred to as 'clubbing skirts'. Aimed at the 'youth' market, they (the ones I saw, anyway) were about 24" long, dark grey and with belt loops & pockets. I was buying a shirt at the time & said something to the effect that, "You're selling men's skirts now?" The salesman, to my surprise, said, "We only received two yesterday, sold one straight away and that one (the one on display) is already sold! We had others interested, but they only do a 30" waist!" (That was me out of the running, I'm afraid!). Sadly, I never saw anyone wearing one around town.....

[ChrisM]

I understand DanR's point, and I agree with it.

I fear, however, that some people will take that message to mean "don't bother."

Please do bother. Let's just think about the menswear marketplace. How many skirts did I buy from a 'real' clothier this past year? Well, the same number as I bought shirts or trousers. And yet despite my absence from the shirts and trousers marketplace, there seems to be no shortage of clothiers offering them. And the Buyers do seem to be buying shirts and trousers and putting them on offer....even though he may only get a dollar a year from me.

Men may not rotate their wardrobes often, but apparently we do buy enough clothes to keep Men's Wearhouse and dozens of others in business.

Yes, I know we are a minority. A tiny minority. "We're so small... My vote doesn't count. I'll just not bother."

Balderdash!

Walk into Men's Wearhouse and ask them where their skirt rack is.

Chris

[Foppy]

In a store in Philadelphia I visited while on vacation, I saw Amerikilts on a rack for sale. At a very inflated price, and a limited selection of sizes, but still, seeing something like that just by pure chance is pretty encouraging.

[binx]

Need lots of money, sounds to me. If someone were to buy 10 or so of each kind, and create a "look book" with some volunteers, it might look attractive to say, like a Hot Topic-type mall shop, to create a section for MUGs. I'm always getting compliments when going into Hot Topic stores in kilts.

binx

[Bravehearts.us]

Getting the public to see us is one thing but I like to go to the Mall wearing my kilt no matter what I’m shopping for. I want the retailers to see there is a market, how ever small, and maybe get the idea there may be others interested in what I’m wearing. I know that a lot of fashion starts on the street, like the baggy pants on young males here in the States.
Lar

[binx]

Oh, I wear kilts all the time, except for the obligatory twice-a-week-at-work trouser days. I'm still testing the waters, wearing shorter skirts and hose to the mall. So far no negative comments, except for a few teenage giggles. If only mall stores would create a "unisex" area in the clothing department, they could allow men to purchase skirts and other type of clothing, free from the stigmas. This could ultimately allow the internet vendors to enter the mainstream marketplace.

binx

[DanR]

Need lots of money, sounds to me. If someone were to buy 10 or so of each kind, and create a "look book" with some volunteers, it might look attractive to say, like a Hot Topic-type mall shop, to create a section for MUGs. I'm always getting compliments when going into Hot Topic stores in kilts.

binx

I should probably elaborate on what a look book is:
It's a book that contains a mixture of design sketches, fabric swatches, and photos of finished products (preferably as worn by professional models and shot by a professional fashion photographer) that a designer presents to a buyer. It reflects the designer's vision and direction. The look book provides a glimpse into the designer's style for the buyer before inviting them to a presentation in front of the buyer's staff / colleagues. Quality of presentation is everything.

As an example, a designer like Roberto Cavalli had to start out with a look book when he entered the fashion design industry. http://www.robertocavalli.com He's been successful so he has a team of designers who work for him. They, in turn, had to present a look book before landing a job with the fashion house that bears Cavalli's name. His look is very different from, say, the Christian Dior lines.

A look book wouldn't be an assortment of different firms wares. Specifically, you couldn't plunk down a book with UK designs, CitySkirt designs, and Midas designs (just as an example) on a buyer's desk. You have to pick ONE and it should come from the designer / manufacturer in question.

If you surf the big labels' websites, you'll see that they've plunked down a chunk of cash just for Flash presentations of their product lines. Yeah, it's pretentious as it gets, but that's what you need to do: Grab a buyer's attention and maintain your choke hold on it until you get a check in your hands. A look book, at least a good one, can cost upwards of US$1,000.

And if you go to http://www.hoovers.com and do a little digging, I'll bet that you'll find that Hot Topic is owned by one of the gigantic retail conglomerates. It's that parent company's buyers you'll need to impress, not the local shop jockeys. Mom-and-Pop operations are a different story altogether.

Having said all that, the best route, if someone has the cash to spare (which I don't) is to get a copy of this book:
Independent Sales Reps
Yeah, it's US$185, or €144.50 for our European friends.
It provides a list of independent sales reps who work with buyers for a living. It's the best bet to get a look book in front of a buyer for a big chain. Good luck and Godspeed, brothers.

Hope this clarifies things.

[davereporter]

I agree with what has been said. In most department stores you cannot even speak with a buyer - at best you get a 1-800 customer line where they purr thank you for your comments and that's that.

I did once speak with a designer at a large jeans outlet who agreed that it is a good idea but the company is bound by tradition - we make jeans and as a side line denim skirts for girls. To change direction would require approval from head office somewhere else.

There are few mom and pop stores around - even those appearing to be original are in fact owned by chains (more like Hydras - the many headed monsters of myths). The few real mom and pop stores tend to work with exclusive designers or get commissioned clothes made which they sell for very high prices. I certainly don't have $500 for a man's skirt.

I suspect it will be a very long time before we can go to Kmart and purchase a man skirt for under $100

[patagoniakid]

I guess I don't understand why this is so complicated. The only issue I see is the store owner allocating some space ($) for a single rack to sell skirts to men. I for one (if I owned a store) would experiment by making low cost women's skirts available to men. Simply sew in a new tag and change the size label. I would go first with a Denim mini cargo type skirt (non flared) with pockets and belt loops (plenty available) and suggest it as a alternative to shorts this hot summer. From a distance they look the same.
It wouldn't hurt to show the display with a picture like this one....
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/searchbr ... lter=1#0+1
(Search for Paganello'07 if it doesn't show right away). This appears to be a regular guy looking sharp in a skirt in my book. Why guys wouldn't adopt this as a alternative to shorts I haven't a clue. I would imagine this to take off first in a really casual environment like the beach.
The key is for store owners to help introduce the "fashion".... and increase their business hopefully.