InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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crfriend
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by crfriend »

ScotL wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:54 amBecause he’s a human being like everyone else. And he deserves to be allowed to express his opinion just like you. You don’t have to like or agree with his opinion but he’s entitled to have one.
You missed the point. The point being not that he has an opinion, it's that his opinion counts vastly more in the public mind-set than the entire weight of everyone's here. That's what's wrong with this picture.

This is one of the problems with "society" today: it's set its ideals entirely wrong. Instead of focussing on people of learning, gentility, and a willingness to try to make things better for all of us we focus instead on jocks, movie-stars, and talk-show comedians.
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by Coder »

I'm sorry for hijacking my own thread, but I was really curious what others thought of this:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/fitnes ... r-AA15zoiC

Perhaps I should have started a new one in news? It felt related to some discussions that happened in this one. I think we can agree Aikman's comments were boorish, and not worthy of further or deeper discussion (but I can be proven wrong!). It seems talking more about him will just be circular, and I think we all agree on the points brought up already.
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by ScotL »

crfriend wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:06 pm
ScotL wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:54 amBecause he’s a human being like everyone else. And he deserves to be allowed to express his opinion just like you. You don’t have to like or agree with his opinion but he’s entitled to have one.
You missed the point. The point being not that he has an opinion, it's that his opinion counts vastly more in the public mind-set than the entire weight of everyone's here. That's what's wrong with this picture.

This is one of the problems with "society" today: it's set its ideals entirely wrong. Instead of focussing on people of learning, gentility, and a willingness to try to make things better for all of us we focus instead on jocks, movie-stars, and talk-show comedians.
With all due respect, I don’t think I missed the point at all. I think you’re jealous that he has a stature that allows his opinion to be broadcast. In my perfect world, I like to think we should respect all opinions.

Am I happy that jocks, movie-stars and talk-show comedians have more away that learned folks? No, but that’s the nature of entertainment. Most people are not drawn to people of learning and gentility as they are to entertainers. Never have. To state otherwise is fantasy.

But what to do about it?

Today, the thing I dislike the most as a dyed in the wool academician who is as nerdy and nerdy gets, is that we trivialize others. Reject their opinions because of where they are in life or what they’ve done.

And to me, this is the sentiment that has led us to yelling matches instead of debate. Belittling others instead of discussing their view as an equal.

I’m as guilty as anyone. But I am also of the mind set that i make mistakes and apologize for them. But I rest assured that my intentions are true. This world needs people to live and let live instead of live and judge.

Please take no offense to my words. I want to start a conversation. I am not stating that you are wrong.
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by Ralph »

crfriend wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:04 pm And why should any of us care one whit about what Herr Aikman -- a former jock -- has to say about the matter. He made his fame by agitating a bag of wind on an American football gridiron, for the gods' sake. Yet another bag of wind. I am tired of "celebrities" and jocks. The world is supposed to be about real people.
I don't expect anyone to care what Aikman thinks or says; I certainly don't. I only said that his view is typical of what most of our society - which includes our friends, our neighbours, our relatives - also believe. Or at least the limited sample set of humans with whom I have conversations on the subject.
Ralph!
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by Barleymower »

Ralph wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:27 pm
The implication, of course, is that football is for big, tough manly men and people who wear dresses are weak or soft. It’s sexist, for one; there are plenty of remarkably strong women (and non-binary people, and men who happen to enjoy wearing
I don"t want it to be true but I have felt it. Today I made up some sawhorses to carry the new kitchen counters while I cut them. I was in my painting sweatshirt, working trousers (lots of pockets etc) and steel toe boots. Later in Costco I'm ignored but still I can feel people are having a look probably because I look like a workman. The boots are heavy and you have to swing them. It's not me but dressed like that makes me/anyone feel big and tough.
Another day I was in the supermarket in a midi skirt, otherwise in traditional mens clothes. I have to say I felt a bit vulnerable. Same sideways looks that don't bother me. I just felt.. weaker.
Another day I was in London. Again in a midi skirt. Same setup. Same sideways looks. I had a good day though. Didn't feel weird for a second.
I think that maybe I'm missing something or maybe the big mouths are tapping into something that we are choosing to say doesn't exist because it doesn't suit us.
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by Dust »

crfriend wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:06 pm
ScotL wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:54 amBecause he’s a human being like everyone else. And he deserves to be allowed to express his opinion just like you. You don’t have to like or agree with his opinion but he’s entitled to have one.
You missed the point. The point being not that he has an opinion, it's that his opinion counts vastly more in the public mind-set than the entire weight of everyone's here. That's what's wrong with this picture.

This is one of the problems with "society" today: it's set its ideals entirely wrong. Instead of focussing on people of learning, gentility, and a willingness to try to make things better for all of us we focus instead on jocks, movie-stars, and talk-show comedians.
He has expertise, but only in football. Unfortunately, people don't make that distinction, and give extra weight to sports stars' opinions on other things...
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by Faldaguy »

by Barleymower » Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:17 pm

Ralph wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 4:27 pm
The implication, of course, is that football is for big, tough manly men and people who wear dresses are weak or soft.

I don"t want it to be true but I have felt it.
I'm ignored but still I can feel people are having a look probably because I look like a workman.... dressed like that makes me/anyone feel big and tough.
Another day I was in the supermarket in a midi skirt, otherwise in traditional mens clothes. I have to say I felt a bit vulnerable. Same sideways looks that don't bother me. I just felt.. weaker.
BM, I can recall those days early in my skirting; but when I flipped my own thinking to: "none of these guys have got the balls to wear a skirt in public", any sense of 'weakness' went right out the window.
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by ScotL »

In a world where no one is an expert on the correct opinion (since opinions are neither right nor wrong), we should not necessarily consider one person to be more or less justified to speak their mind. It’s their mind.

And on a cafe where we want our opinions to be heard, outright rejection of another’s opinions sets the precedent that opinions are not valid.

And I would like to think that from a bunch of guys who really want the rest of the world to respect our opinion that men should wear skirts, we shouldn’t reject others opinions for not wanting men to wear skirts. Rather we should discuss from a respectful position.

This is how we find common ground where one side says “I’m gonna wear what’s comfortable” and the other says “ok bro, not for me, but you do you.”
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by Barleymower »

Faldaguy wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:26 am
by Barleymower » Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:17 pm

Ralph wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 4:27 pm
The implication, of course, is that football is for big, tough manly men and people who wear dresses are weak or soft.

I don"t want it to be true but I have felt it.
I'm ignored but still I can feel people are having a look probably because I look like a workman.... dressed like that makes me/anyone feel big and tough.
Another day I was in the supermarket in a midi skirt, otherwise in traditional mens clothes. I have to say I felt a bit vulnerable. Same sideways looks that don't bother me. I just felt.. weaker.
BM, I can recall those days early in my skirting; but when I flipped my own thinking to: "none of these guys have got the balls to wear a skirt in public", any sense of 'weakness' went right out the window.
Faldaguy, I drfting away from the original topic but not to far I hope. The topic being masogonistic comments. My reply is why, why why? Why do men make these comments? its rediculous. why don't men have the balls to go out there in a skirt? why do women think they can dictate what men wear? the list goes on. It all gets very complicated.

I know many men won't do anything that risks loss of favour with women, probably because women largly choose who mates and who doesn't.
I think in a lot of cases women are using this bit of power to boss men around. I'm seeing lots of men unable to stand up for themselves. Is the lure of sex so powerful? or are men mostly weak in the face female aggression. I expect I'm biased because I come from a family of agressive females. Personally I find what Troy A said really strange, my experience is all about learning duck when it comes to women!

further off topic but relevant if I take what Aikman said literally: "we take the dresses off" . It's a great piece and worth reading about men in womens clothing.
https://www.answers.com/Q/Why_do_some_m ... s_clothing

BTW I not suggesting that men in skrits are crossdressers or transvestites, or that wearing skirts is a hobby, or that MIS are secretly wearing silky undies under their skirts (if they did I dont care). But a lot of what is said rings true. A lot of MIS don't go outside in a skirt. Many have been forbidden by their wives to do it very often.

The shining light for me is wearing a skirt makes me feel calm and happy. Maybe Troy Aikman would too if he had the balls to try it :)

"Why Do Men Wear Dresses? (And Why Do Some Women Get So Upset About It?) Few activities seem to attract more venom and contempt than crossdressing. One newspaper writer who found out that her ex-husband was a crossdresser described him as a `pervert' and dumped a pile of her own old clothes on his mother's doorstep to make her point. What inspires this level of anger among so many women? Fear, I suppose. But fear of what? Fear of the competition for the underwear drawer? Fear that he might be gay? Fear that he'll stretch everything and ruin her tights? Fear that the neighbours will find out? Dressing up in the sort of clothes usually worn by women is one of the most harmless activities imaginable and yet it is also one of the most socially misunderstood. Lots of men dress up - as freemasons, soldiers or special constables - and transvestism is just a fun variation on the dressing up theme but our society has developed in such a way that what we choose to wear does, to a very large extent, define what we are, who we are and what others think of us. The judge wears a gown and a wig. The priest wears a gown. The bishop wears a particularly fine gown. Kings wear robes and crowns. Hotel porters, car park attendants, railway staff, airline stewardesses and people in a thousand other different types of employment wear clothes that help identify them. Plumbers wear overalls. Doctors wear white coats. Nurses wear uniforms. As our society becomes more and more complex so the uniforms become increasingly important. We define people by whether they have `white collar' or `blue collar' jobs.
Men who crossdress are throwing an enormous spanner into the works of this finely balanced piece of social machinery. It is, perhaps, hardly surprising that crossdressing produces so much confusion, bewilderment and resentment and so many pejorative remarks. Despite the popularity of transvestism hardly anything is known about this `hobby' - other than the fact that a lot of men do it. (Lots of women crossdress too but transvestism among women is socially accepted. Millions of women regularly wear trousers and suits. The idea of men in clothes usually worn by women may sound like a joke. But it isn't. Putting on female clothes is, for thousands of men, the best way to deal with stress and escape from the responsibilities of being a man. `If I didn't crossdress,' one man told me, `I'd be dead. I had high blood pressure which pills couldn't control. Wearing feminine clothing brought my blood pressure under control.' Precise figures are difficult to obtain but my research shows that in an average week 100,000 in every 1,000,000 men dress - for some of the time - in something soft, silky or frilly. Often they just wear a camisole and panties underneath their male clothes. Most crossdressers live in constant fear of being found out. Around a quarter of male transvestites have never dared share their secret with their wives. That means that around the world millions of women are married to transvestites - and don't know it. In every million women there will be around 25,000 who are unknowingly married to (or living with) transvestites. Transvestism crosses all social and
professional barriers. Your best friend, your Golf partner, your doctor, your boss or your husband could be a secret transvestite. The chances are high that someone you know well is a crossdresser. Here are some facts I uncovered in a survey of 1014 British transvestites: (It is, I think, the biggest ever survey of crossdressers.)
* Well over three quarters of all transvestites regularly wear the sort of underwear worn by women under their male clothing. Many of the rest would do so if they weren't frightened of being found out by wives.
* Less than half of all transvestites go out of their homes fully dressed as women and most of these are honest enough to admit
that they don't fool anyone. But for most this isn't important. They want to dress in the sort of clothes worn by women - not
become women.
* Transvestism must be one of the most harmless hobbies. And yet nearly three quarters of male transvestites admit that they live in constant fear of being found out by prejudiced relatives, neighbours or employers. One man who wrote to me to help with my survey drove to a nearby town to post his anonymous letter. Many say they don't understand why women can wear male clothing - but men can't wear female clothes.
* Some wives are scornful and dismissive. Others are patronising and refuse to try and understand. Time and time again I have read pitiful letters from transvestites whose wives `allow' them to dress for one hour a week - as long as they do it in secret.
* Three quarters of all transvestites' partners know that the man in their lives dress in women's clothing. But a quarter of partners do not know.
* There is good reason for the secrecy since most wives or girlfriends who know about their partner's cross dressing disapprove. They miss a lot of fun by being so selfish, narrow minded and disapproving.
* Happily, just over a third of wives and girlfriends actively help their men dress as women by helping with make up and clothes. Many women admit they get a sexual turn on from seeing their male partner in silky, feminine clothes. It is common for transvestites whose partners do approve to have sex while dressed as a woman.
* The vast majority of transvestites are heterosexual.
* The average transvestite spends 12 hours a week dressed as a woman - but would like to spend 70 hours a week (rather more than half the `waking' week) dressed in feminine clothes.
* A growing number of men have discovered that putting on stockings and a frock is the quickest way to escape from the stressful responsibilities of being a man. I have little doubt that more men would live longer if transvestism was more widely accepted. I believe that transvestism is one of the least harmful of all hobbies and one that no man should feel ashamed of. It is, I believe, a perfectly acceptable way for any man to escape from the
day to day stresses of being a man in a stressful world. It's fun and clearly gives a lot of men a great deal of pleasure and it is difficult to think of any activity which is less likely to do harm to anyone. Men who dress in womens' clothes bring out a normal, healthy part of their own femininity, broaden their outlook on life and enjoy a temporary respite from the responsibilities and demands of being male. I'm always sad to read of the number of women who do not accept their husband's crossdressing. Time after time I have opened letters from men whose wives have treated them horrendously badly. I think it is appalling that any woman should have the nerve to say to her partner: `Oh, well if you must then I suppose you
must - but you can only do it for an hour a week and you must make sure that the curtains are drawn and that I'm well out of the house
and by the way I don't want to see any sign of your silly women's clothing and so on when I get back.' No woman would, I hope, dare say anything like this to a man who took up golf or model making. I think it is sad that transvestism should be regarded as so much more horrendous than anything else - though I believe that deep seated and completely false prejudices are probably at the root of it all. Many women probably assume that most transvestites are either homosexual or else candidates for sex change surgery. But, on the whole, there is a huge difference between transvestites and transsexuals. Transsexuals are like golfers - they lose their balls. Transvestites are keen to keep theirs. My survey has made it absolutely clear that the vast majority of transvestites are heterosexual and happy to be men. (Curiously, crossdressing is so misunderstood and commonly reviled that some women would doubtless prefer it if they found out that their husband was gay or wanted to change sex.) The full results of my survey into crossdressing appear in my book `Men in Dresses' which appears in full on this website.
Copyright Vernon Coleman 2004"
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Response to Barleymower

Post by Grok »

Years ago I participated in kilting forums. It was commented that women tended to have two different reactions to kilted men-they either loved it, or hated it.

There were cases where wives objected to their husbands wearing kilts. Similar to the situation some members find themselves in.

As for women who love it...it must be pointed out that the kilt is recognized as mens wear. So some women can be enthusiastic about a man in a skirt like garment, so long as the garment is viewed as such. Within these limits, the enthusiastic women must be appreciated for being more open minded than some other women.

Right, so for a man a kilt can act as a bozo filter.
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Response to Ralph

Post by Grok »

Yes, unfortunately, I must agree with you. It will take several generations before MIS becomes mainstream.

In the mean time, for much of anything to gain traction, it will have to be viewed as mens wear, or be viewed as (relatively) masculine.
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by Coder »

Vernon Coleman wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:27 am Men who dress in womens' clothes ... and enjoy a temporary respite from the responsibilities and demands of being male.
I don't think most here subscribe to that philosophy. It's a dated way of looking at the world, fashion, although it may speak to a deeper connection some get from their clothes, a superficial one. Maybe some/most men are small-minded enough to feel this way, but clothes do not equal the man. And yes, I find fault with this thinking mainly because I do not subscribe to it, and hate being pushed to think this way because "other people are like this".
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by STEVIE »

Hi All, I am not going to use quotes on this one.
I will simply express a variety of opinions.
The majority of woman do not object to men wearing skirts or dresses except when it comes to their own partners.
The women who find men in Kilts attractive really don't consider the Kilt as a feminine garment i.e. a skirt.
NB the "K" is intentional. Whether we like it or not, pseudo kilts or kilted skirts are just that, skirts, there is a difference in perception.
There are likely as many reasons for a man to don a skirt or dress as there are men who actually do.
Trying to pin it down is rather pointless. My motivation for experimenting with my sisters' clothes aged 10 is radically different as to why I had on a skirt in the office today aged 64. Your reasons are just that, what other people think they may be is quite irrelevant.
If you are a man in a skirt and have never had to face a detractor, you are either exceptionally lucky or should get out and about more.
It is rather sad that celebrity status, any field, seems to confer greater respect than say an academic expert or someone who can actually demonstrate real wisdom. All the worst tyrants and despots in history have held "opinions". Their "correctness" is debatable.
As far as the human race is concerned the only cure for stupidity is euthanasia.
Finally, I don't even know who Troy Aikman is and that says it all really.
I just cannot think of how I might ruffle any more feathers, it has been a hard day at the pit face.
Night all.
Steve.
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Re: InsideHook: Troy Aikman Made a Really Stupid Misogynistic Comment During “Monday Night Football”

Post by Barleymower »

Nothing incorrect in what you say Stevie
I'm hoping you are wrong about acceptance from women. If you are right I'm deluding myself that everything is OK at home. Marriage is not easy so it's hard to tell.
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Re: Response to Barleymower

Post by ScotL »

Grok wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:08 pm
it must be pointed out that the kilt is recognized as mens wear. So some women can be enthusiastic about a man in a skirt like garment, so long as the garment is viewed as such.
Words matter. Stupidly. And it’s not just women, men too. Men will wear a kilt but not a skirt due to nomenclature.

But a kilt is a skirt. Spare me the usual BS that is stated when this is stated. A kilt is a type of skirt. So to change the fourth sentence of my post, with these same truths, it becomes “men will wear a skirt but not a skirt due to nomenclature” OR “men will wear a kilt but not a kilt due to nomenclature.” Or even crazier, men will wear a skirt but not a kilt due to nomenclature.”

And in this case, nomenclature could also infer that the powers that be state one is for men and one is for women.

And before we all complain about this BS and whine about how unfair it is, I wish we’d use it to our advantage. I couldn’t give a rats arse what the clothing I wear is called. But if calling every skirt I wear a kilt allows the small minded people of the world to shut up and just accept it, I’ll take it.

Yes, I know. Purists will get on their high horse and shout to the Scottish highlands that kilts are specialized garments not skirts. But ask yourself, how much do you really care?

Don’t we all just want to wear the skirt you want regardless of what anyone calls it.
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