Another reason I hate Tennessee

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crfriend
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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Stu wrote:This actually tells me that Tennessee is a good place that I can respect. Of course I don't agree with this man for a second - I think he is barking mad - but the fact he can say what he says tells me that Tennessee properly respects the right to free speech.
The problem here is whether he's speaking his own mind, or the mind he uses when in an official capacity. Note the headline atop the article: "Tennessee detective's Sunday sermon calls for arrest, execution of LGBTQ members".

This guy is a cop, and with a mentality like that, I'd posit a dangerous one. It's be one thing if weren't in a position that gives him power and license over others; then he'd be simply one more howler and, in principle, others would recognise that and dismiss his ravings. Unfortunately, howlers today usually go unanswered -- and that's when the echo-chambers kick in and others start believing the message. Having nut-jobs around with guns -- and license to use them -- really bothers me; the fact that he demonstrably doesn't understand how the legal system works is deeply troubling as well. That county has a big problem on its hands. Have false convictions already been handed down via falsified or tampered evidence? Has damage already been incurred by the county from what looks very much like a rogue cop? Big problem indeed.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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One thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that the statements made by this man qualify him to be placed on the F.B.I.'s watch list. He has the potential to commit a hate crime and this fits their criteria to add him to the watch list. In their eyes he is no different than a terrorist.
Also, we do have free speech but many do not realize there are limitations. One can be arrested for assault on a mere verbal threat. The victim just has to claim they were in fear and the burden is placed on you to prove your innocence. Freedom of speech comes with great responsibility. There will always be those that abuse this freedom.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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crfriend wrote:This guy is a cop, and with a mentality like that, I'd posit a dangerous one. It's be one thing if weren't in a position that gives him power and license over others; then he'd be simply one more howler and, in principle, others would recognise that and dismiss his ravings. Unfortunately, howlers today usually go unanswered -- and that's when the echo-chambers kick in and others start believing the message. Having nut-jobs around with guns -- and license to use them -- really bothers me; the fact that he demonstrably doesn't understand how the legal system works is deeply troubling as well. That county has a big problem on its hands. Have false convictions already been handed down via falsified or tampered evidence? Has damage already been incurred by the county from what looks very much like a rogue cop? Big problem indeed.
I should note, that according to reports the Knox County District Attorney is looking into just that, bias with regards to handling of cases. The Knox County Sheriff is on the record for investigating Fritts.

But there is a problem, politically and religiously Tennessee is indeed about as "red" and conservative as it gets. In many matters even dwarfing their neighbors to the south (Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia). No doubt his actions are legally protected by some manner of state law, and you know a certain somebody on Pennsylvania Ave will have his back (even though Fritts did refer to the man in question as "chump").

The Knox County Sheriffs office has some legal hurdles to cross before they can remove him. I'm sure Mr. Fritts has, or is in the process of obtaining legal counsel to protect his interest. I remind you all that the Westboro Baptist Church makes most it's its money from lawsuits filed when local governments deny them permits to assemble and hold their protest. The Phelps family is very wealthy on account of this. Mr. Fritts probably has this in mind. In America, hate can be highly profitable if you don't mind actually being hated.

In Tennessee's defense though, I read recently that I believe the Tennessee Attorney General considers crimes against LGBTQ+ people as "hate crimes".

I disagree with YouTube's removal of the sermon. Let this cancer show itself, let it come to the surface, let the world see the wickedness that this man and his faith represents, for in order to cure a disease, it helps to realize you have one.
Freedomforall wrote:One thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that the statements made by this man qualify him to be placed on the F.B.I.'s watch list. He has the potential to commit a hate crime and this fits their criteria to add him to the watch list. In their eyes he is no different than a terrorist.
The way things currently are in the U.S., "Christians" can not be considered terrorist, even if their threats/actions directly mirror that of Islamic extremist. While I agree with you in principle, frankly the notion will never fly. There are just too many right wing Christians in this nation. In the middle east you have ISIS, in America, you have CRISIS. Two sides of the same coin.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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moonshadow wrote:I should note, that according to reports the Knox County District Attorney is looking into just that, bias with regards to handling of cases. The Knox County Sheriff is on the record for investigating Fritts.
Correct. The problems for Knox now are the duals of finding out how long this has been going on and what to do about it.
In Tennessee's defense though, I read recently that I believe the Tennessee Attorney General considers crimes against LGBTQ+ people as "hate crimes".
I'm not a big fan of the notion of "hate crime" because "hate" can be difficult to pin down and relies heavily on individual interpretation. This makes it problematic in cases of law because what may be hateful to one individual may be normal to another -- and that aspect is entirely different from the matter of "has a crime been committed in the first place".
I disagree with YouTube's removal of the sermon. Let this cancer show itself, let it come to the surface, let the world see the wickedness that this man and his faith represents, for in order to cure a disease, it helps to realize you have one.
Seconded. The world has a lot of ugliness to it, and that ugliness ought to be confronted. We won't wind up with an entirely beautiful world, but we'll wind up with a much more humane one. (Of note is that to guys like Fritts, what we consider ugliness is his vision of beauty. See my commentary on "hate crime" above.)
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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It's a fair point that the man is a police officer and his stated view could certainly cause people to be concerned as to his impartiality and professional judgment. One would hope that when in a working situation, he would have enough professionalism to put aside both his religious beliefs and his personal opinions and prejudice, but I wouldn't be too confident that he would One might liken this to the case of a police officer being associated with the KKK.

As a private citizen expressing an opinion, the very has every right to do that under the principles of free speech. There should be no limits to the freedom to express any opinion, no matter how distasteful. If the speech amounted to threats of violence, or inciting law-breaking, then that would be a criminal matter. From what I have read, I can't see that he has done this.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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Stu wrote:One would hope that when in a working situation, he would have enough professionalism to put aside both his religious beliefs and his personal opinions and prejudice, but I wouldn't be too confident that he would. One might liken this to the case of a police officer being associated with the KKK.
What are the odds that he'd misread anyone in this community and drop them into his bucket of "killables"? I'd say the odds are quite high, and that precisely none of us would get a fair shake.
As a private citizen expressing an opinion, the very has every right to do that under the principles of free speech. There should be no limits to the freedom to express any opinion, no matter how distasteful.
Agreed. Let's get the ugly out in full view. It's more useful that way because it can be addressed and debated.
If the speech amounted to threats of violence, or inciting law-breaking, then that would be a criminal matter.
Here's the terrifying thing: he's advocating state-sponsored violence -- up to and including the taking of life. That is vastly worse than a simple nut-job going at it alone; it evokes visions of the Third Reich reborn.

He's entitled to his opinions and to express them, but once those opinions become actions and people get hurt it's an entirely different thing. And who's to say that hasn't happened already.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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crfriend wrote:Here's the terrifying thing: he's advocating state-sponsored violence -- up to and including the taking of life. That is vastly worse than a simple nut-job going at it alone; it evokes visions of the Third Reich reborn.
He's entitled to his opinions and to express them, but once those opinions become actions and people get hurt it's an entirely different thing. And who's to say that hasn't happened already.
Oh, I really don't mind him doing that because, if it's made public, then it won't happen. I think we need to have faith in our respective societies.

Germany in the 1930s was a very particular case in point, having been defeated in a war in 1918, forced to sign a humiliating Armistice, followed by a decade of abject poverty while having its industries controlled from outside and not being allowed any kind of defence. Along came the Nazis as opportunists, but even they kept their worst intentions under wraps.

Let him say whatever comes into his head. Out in the open. And defend free speech even for those whose views we deplore. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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moonshadow wrote:
crfriend wrote:This guy is a cop, and with a mentality like that, I'd posit a dangerous one. It's be one thing if weren't in a position that gives him power and license over others; then he'd be simply one more howler and, in principle, others would recognise that and dismiss his ravings. Unfortunately, howlers today usually go unanswered -- and that's when the echo-chambers kick in and others start believing the message. Having nut-jobs around with guns -- and license to use them -- really bothers me; the fact that he demonstrably doesn't understand how the legal system works is deeply troubling as well. That county has a big problem on its hands. Have false convictions already been handed down via falsified or tampered evidence? Has damage already been incurred by the county from what looks very much like a rogue cop? Big problem indeed.
I should note, that according to reports the Knox County District Attorney is looking into just that, bias with regards to handling of cases. The Knox County Sheriff is on the record for investigating Fritts.

But there is a problem, politically and religiously Tennessee is indeed about as "red" and conservative as it gets. In many matters even dwarfing their neighbors to the south (Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia). No doubt his actions are legally protected by some manner of state law, and you know a certain somebody on Pennsylvania Ave will have his back (even though Fritts did refer to the man in question as "chump").

The Knox County Sheriffs office has some legal hurdles to cross before they can remove him. I'm sure Mr. Fritts has, or is in the process of obtaining legal counsel to protect his interest. I remind you all that the Westboro Baptist Church makes most it's its money from lawsuits filed when local governments deny them permits to assemble and hold their protest. The Phelps family is very wealthy on account of this. Mr. Fritts probably has this in mind. In America, hate can be highly profitable if you don't mind actually being hated.

I
Freedomforall wrote:One thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that the statements made by this man qualify him to be placed on the F.B.I.'s watch list. He has the potential to commit a hate crime and this fits their criteria to add him to the watch list. In their eyes he is no different than a terrorist.
The way things currently are in the U.S., "Christians" can not be considered terrorist, even if their threats/actions directly mirror that of Islamic extremist. While I agree with you in principle, frankly the notion will never fly. There are just too many right wing Christians in this nation. In the middle east you have ISIS, in America, you have CRISIS. Two sides of the same coin.
He quietly resigned his job at the Sheriff's office according to one article I read. Also, law enforcement receives the F.B.I.'s watch list and there were many Christian organizations on it that were listed as potential domestic terrorist. I personally have knowledge of this. It was very enlightening.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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Also, in my experience people like this man who have some type of power wielding influence and present themselves in a very tyrannical manor have many skeletons in their closet. There was a case in point a few months ago in the Western United States. A Senator was spewing homophobic/anti-gay speech. A few months later the news reported he was caught with a male prostitute in a hotel. I have witnessed this scenario many times over. In my previous occupation I saw a few such people land themselves in jail due to the things they were hiding. Many of them were supervisors and were nightmares to work for.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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Freedomforall wrote:He quietly resigned his job at the Sheriff's office according to one article I read.
That must be reassuring news for the folks in Knox County.
Also, law enforcement receives the F.B.I.'s watch list and there were many Christian organizations on it that were listed as potential domestic terrorist. I personally have knowledge of this. It was very enlightening.
That's very interesting indeed. It's good to know that such watchfulness exists, because extremism can take many forms and can come from almost any angle. Is the list public?
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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moonshadow wrote:Like Islam, the bible also condones the execution of infidels (non Jews) Deuteronomy 17:2-7, and before someone says that's that "Old Testament stuff" I remind you that Christ said himself that he has come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Matthew 5:17

...
Christianity needs to be called out for its crap. It's a vile religion. I don't care if 80% of Americans are Christian, if that 80% actually read their bible, and they actually valued the ideals of individual freedom, love, compassion, not to mention American values, they'd not walk, no sir, they'd RUN away from the faith. I'm sure I'm bordering on getting the mod hat called out (God forbid we offend a Christian) so I'm going to stop here. But in closing, if you're a Christian, and you tell me I'm wrong, then you're ignoring parts of the bible, it's as simple as that.
I'm not offended, but will offer an alternative view.

A Christian view includes both that Jesus did fulfill the Law ("It is accomplished") and that the Law that God gave Moses was for the Jewish people, not Gentiles. So I am well aware of those parts of the Bible, but can make a good argument that they are not to guide Christians today.

Jesus gave an excellent summary of the law:
Therefore, whatever you want others to do for you, do also the same for them — this is the Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 7.12)


Those who hate are not following the law of Christ. A Christian has to read the whole scripture interpreted by the teachings of Jesus.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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crfriend wrote:
Freedomforall wrote:He quietly resigned his job at the Sheriff's office according to one article I read.
That must be reassuring news for the folks in Knox County.
Also, law enforcement receives the F.B.I.'s watch list and there were many Christian organizations on it that were listed as potential domestic terrorist. I personally have knowledge of this. It was very enlightening.
That's very interesting indeed. It's good to know that such watchfulness exists, because extremism can take many forms and can come from almost any angle. Is the list public?

It is quite ironic that you asked if the list is publicly available. It is not currently. It recently went before a federal judge to be considered whether it was even constitutional. The aftermath of 911 basically is what created the list. It had very loose parameters in the beginning as to who would be on the list. At first basically anyone that proved themselves capable of civil unrest was placed on the list. Here is the recent court hearing concerning the list. https://www.apnews.com/6d36e261744b42ec93128edebdc3bcf5
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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Attached is a document released under the Freedom of Information Act. This is a detailed report on the investigation of an ultra right-wing Christian group.


https://vault.fbi.gov/Christian%20Ident ... 1%20of%201


Also, I have attached another document released by Homeland security detailing the threat level of Christian extremism.

https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=697463


I am also attaching one more article detailing the broad criteria that can put you on the list.

https://www.csoonline.com/article/22204 ... -----.html
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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Jim wrote:I'm not offended, but will offer an alternative view.

A Christian view includes both that Jesus did fulfill the Law ("It is accomplished") and that the Law that God gave Moses was for the Jewish people, not Gentiles. So I am well aware of those parts of the Bible, but can make a good argument that they are not to guide Christians today.
I'm glad you weren't offended by my remarks Jim. It does seem however Christians such as yourself are in somewhat short supply. At any rate, I'm pretty well fixed on the conclusion I reached a decade ago. However I will share your comment with Jenn, who holds the "spirit" of Christ in her heart however is greatly troubled by what she is seeing in the name of Christ both locally and across the wires.
Freedomforall wrote:
moonshadow wrote:The way things currently are in the U.S., "Christians" can not be considered terrorist, even if their threats/actions directly mirror that of Islamic extremist. While I agree with you in principle, frankly the notion will never fly. There are just too many right wing Christians in this nation. In the middle east you have ISIS, in America, you have CRISIS. Two sides of the same coin.
He quietly resigned his job at the Sheriff's office according to one article I read. Also, law enforcement receives the F.B.I.'s watch list and there were many Christian organizations on it that were listed as potential domestic terrorist. I personally have knowledge of this. It was very enlightening.
I stand corrected...
Stu wrote:It's a fair point that the man is a police officer and his stated view could certainly cause people to be concerned as to his impartiality and professional judgment. One would hope that when in a working situation, he would have enough professionalism to put aside both his religious beliefs and his personal opinions and prejudice, but I wouldn't be too confident that he would One might liken this to the case of a police officer being associated with the KKK.
Carl's response hit the nail pretty good, but I wanted to add, often times some may group people like Fritts in the same box as NeoNazi's and white supremacist. The two groups also have been known to be very anti Semitic. However it's important to note that these hate groups can, and often do have opposing views. There may be some overlap on occasion, but generally these hate groups are very much different. I would imagine Fritts is most likely NOT anti Semitic, and he's probably not really racist either. It sounds like the grand sum of his overall bigotry is towards the LGBT group.

On the matter of Neo Nazi's and white supremacist, often times they can actually be of the Pagan traditions. In fact, I believe there is one such hate group operating in the eastern mountains of southern Tennessee today. The KKK is known to be strictly Protestant Christian.

No, I suspect Fritts most likely just wants to have his 15 minutes of fame. That fire will burn out pretty quickly.. . I mean for God's sake... street view this address: 715 N. Cherry St, Knoxville TN, 37914. It's in the same building as a bondsman and across the street from a planned parenthood clinic. It's a strip mall church man...
crfriend wrote:I'm not a big fan of the notion of "hate crime" because "hate" can be difficult to pin down and relies heavily on individual interpretation. This makes it problematic in cases of law because what may be hateful to one individual may be normal to another -- and that aspect is entirely different from the matter of "has a crime been committed in the first place".
I think the idea of "hate crime" justice is when the motive was hate. For example, if I see you walking down the street wearing a skirt, but I just want your money and in the process of mugging you, jab a knife in your side and kill you. That's NOT a hate crime. The motive was money. If I just hate guys who wear skirts and killed you for that reason it IS a hate crime.

The issue with hate crime justice, is how it's administered. Not all crimes of hate classify as hate crimes. As in the case of virtually all southern states, including Virginia, if you murder someone of the LGBT group just for being LBGT, then they do not consider that a hate crime.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

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Aaaanyway.... I just took a peep over at the "warning" thread, and I can hear the cracking under my feet so I'm going to leave this thread alone and say no more about the subject.

I've already done what I promised I wouldn't do (talk religion)... old habits die hard, and our friend Mr. Fritts sure doesn't make it easy to hold ones tongue.
-Andrea
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