unisex clothing.

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unisex clothing.

Postby oldsalt1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:25 pm

Just throwing out a thought. I think that things are going to change as far as clothing for men.

But the change is not going to come from men exercising their desires to be able to wear whatever they want

It is going to come from the ladies movement.

It will be from their desire for power and their attempts to gain it by emasculating men.
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby moonshadow » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:52 pm

How do you mean? Please elaborate...
"We all have the tendency to make simple things difficult, but the spirit that abides within us achieves its own ends by making all difficult things simple."
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby oldsalt1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:42 pm

moonshadow wrote:How do you mean? Please elaborate...

This is simplistic but maybe it will better illustrate my Idea Once they let us wear skirts and dresses they initiate the theory that a man that is dressed in women's clothes has given up his masculinity and doesn't carry the strength he had before.

Example when I was working for a major firm if you had an important meeting you wore a power suit. Back then it was a dark colored usually gray or black three piece suit , wingtip shoes not loafers and a tie that blended with the suit. If you went into the meeting with anything else you were starting with a disadvantage. to a lesser extent I am sure the same standards exist today.

I have nice Tahari ASL Navy skirt suit. with pumps and nylons . I think it is fine , but in a major meeting . you tell me if i would be on even grounds. Base your answers not what you would like to happen but what you think would happen
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby Caultron » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:14 pm

oldsalt1 wrote:...I have nice Tahari ASL Navy skirt suit. with pumps and nylons . I think it is fine , but in a major meeting . you tell me if i would be on even grounds. Base your answers not what you would like to happen but what you think would happen

It's hard to say without knowing the specific personalities but I think the trick would lie in projecting an air of quiet but supreme confidence.

Plan B would be eclipsing their pomposity with your own but that seems riskier.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby moonshadow » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:11 pm

Oh okay. I see where you are coming from now. I wasn't too sure earlier. I may contribute some thoughts later if the mood strikes me and I'm on a proper keyboard, not my phone.

Good topic! I'm interested to read the replies.
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby Taj » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:25 pm

IMHO the business world is all about the dollar. Anything out of the ordinary can pose risk. Look at how the markets respond to random fears. Your Tahari suit looks great, but lock-step business seems to fear and reject anything that makes them uncomfortable. While we think of ourselves as open-minded and courageous the business world would likely see eccentricity and risk. Changing that mentality will be like changing the direction of a ship as opposed to a canoe.
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby oldsalt1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:56 pm

The point I was trying to make is that eventually women will "ALLOW US" to wear skirts etc. but will then hold it against us. If I was to wear the skirt suit to a meeting even though it may be proper business wear I would be at a distinct disadvantage
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby crfriend » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:14 pm

oldsalt1 wrote:The point I was trying to make is that eventually women will "ALLOW US" to wear skirts etc. but will then hold it against us. If I was to wear the skirt suit to a meeting even though it may be proper business wear I would be at a distinct disadvantage

This is more the result of a very fast and very violent "swing of the pendulum" of "male privilege" to "female privilege" that most men didn't even see coming, and it's come about through the creative use of pressure-groups and leverage through the legal system. Sure, women will "allow" us to wear what we want, and then will behave as if they have complete dominance (which, at the moment, they do).

With the way things are now, I avoid being alone in the presence of a woman. One allegation (false as it'd be) could well destroy my career; it's not worth it. It's almost happened to me once, and "once bitten, twice shy". I want witnesses present to debunk the accusation.

So, until the "pendulum" can be returned to the centre of its swing -- and held fast there -- it's going to be a tough row for men.
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby Caultron » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:04 am

oldsalt1 wrote:The point I was trying to make is that eventually women will "ALLOW US" to wear skirts etc. but will then hold it against us. If I was to wear the skirt suit to a meeting even though it may be proper business wear I would be at a distinct disadvantage

How are women (or men) not allowing us to wear skirts now?

OK, dress-codes for customer-facing jobs, sometimes, and perhaps the occasional autocratic manager, but that's not all women or all men laying down some sort of dictatorial mandate.

I mean, I'm a software developer, which gives me some leeway, but I could wear pretty much anything anywhere. If I showed up in a blue pinstriped suit, white shirt, red tie, and wingtips they'd probably conclude I'm not much of a software developer. A t-shirt, shirts, and sandals would be more expected.

Just let everyone have their space. Don't be a control freak. We can all get along.
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby SkirtsDad » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:41 am

I'm not sure if I understand this concept that people are throwing about of women "allowing us" to wear skirts.... how is someone "allowing" or not and who is the "us" in the equation, because I don't think I want to be included? The language seems very loose and the argument based on a subjective premise with overt use of misinformed stereotypes. Do you seriously think that women, feminist or otherwise, are interested in emasculating men? If your idea comes from fear then perhaps it is based on the idea of retribution for the harm that men have done to women throughout the centuries.

I agree with Taj that from a business perspective it is about risk and profit. If someone thought they could sell a million skirts to men then someone would already have been out there producing them. Simply at the moment there is no market for it, but it doesn't mean there will never be. The reality is that change comes not from people like us, but from the emerging generation. Virtually no teenager or young adult that I come across gives a sh*t what I'm wearing. They don't even bat an eyelid in the street, but even more, a young female university student took the time to say hello in the street and to say how refreshing it was to see someone dressed so differently. As far as I can see, the best thing that the members here can be, is a beacon to encourage others.

Anyway, maybe someone can explain it better, especially if they think that I've missed the point, but from where I'm sitting as someone who wear skirts almost everywhere, then no-one, and least of all women, has had to "allow me" before I put on a skirt.
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby oldsalt1 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:58 am

How many members of this cafe have spouses that won't " ALLOW" them to wear skirts

How many members of this cafe have bosses or jobs (not counting safety issues) that wont allow them to wear skirts.

If a male teacher showed up for class in a skirt how long would he have that job.

So please don't throw that bull that no one is stopping men from wearing skirts.

Just because some of the members in the cafe have been successful in being able to wear a skirt out and to work. doesn't mean that it is acceptable or allowed in the general populace .

Just getting along and having your own space is where we want to end up but we are a long way from there
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby Caultron » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:17 am

SkirtsDad wrote:...from where I'm sitting as someone who wear skirts almost everywhere, then no-one, and least of all women, has had to "allow me" before I put on a skirt.

Exactly.

I realize that not everyone has the same freedom as you or I, but that's a disagreement between individuals and not a global men-vs-women thing.
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby SkirtsDad » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:49 am

oldsalt1 wrote:How many members of this cafe have spouses that won't " ALLOW" them to wear skirts

How many members of this cafe have bosses or jobs (not counting safety issues) that wont allow them to wear skirts.

If a male teacher showed up for class in a skirt how long would he have that job.

So please don't throw that bull that no one is stopping men from wearing skirts.

Just because some of the members in the cafe have been successful in being able to wear skirt out and to work. doesn't mean that it is acceptable or allowed in the general populace .


Your argument was that 'eventually women will "ALLOW US" to wear skirts'...which seems to implicate all women, not solely those partners that don't "allow" it?
I am aware that some here that may not be able to wear skirts to work, however, that is by no means all work places... and am I to assume again that it is only women bosses that are to blame?
What about the companies that haven't seen it an an issue? were these drivers sacked for wearing skirts, for instance? http://mashable.com/2017/06/21/men-wear-skirts-in-heatwave/#lEBDc_ZLgqqw
If a male teacher were to be sacked for wearing a skirt then it would not the be the skirt per-se but the fact that he would not have been following the dress code. Similarly a woman should expect the same were she also not to dress as per the women's dress code.
Whilst I am not denying that there are not norms in some countries and some businesses for dress etiquette I have certainly been to important meetings where people have not had to wear a dark suit and tie and the company boss (male) has turned up in an open neck shirt.... this was the norm!!!! I didn't think to enquire if a woman had "allowed" him.
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby SkirtsDad » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:51 am

Caultron wrote:
SkirtsDad wrote:...from where I'm sitting as someone who wear skirts almost everywhere, then no-one, and least of all women, has had to "allow me" before I put on a skirt.

Exactly.

I realize that not everyone has the same freedom as you or I, but that's a disagreement between individuals and not a global men-vs-women thing.


Hear hear!
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Re: unisex clothing.

Postby Darryl » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:46 am

oldsalt1 wrote:
moonshadow wrote:How do you mean? Please elaborate...

This is simplistic but maybe it will better illustrate my Idea Once they let us wear skirts and dresses they initiate the theory that a man that is dressed in women's clothes has given up his masculinity and doesn't carry the strength he had before.

Example when I was working for a major firm if you had an important meeting you wore a power suit. Back then it was a dark colored usually gray or black three piece suit , wingtip shoes not loafers and a tie that blended with the suit. If you went into the meeting with anything else you were starting with a disadvantage. to a lesser extent I am sure the same standards exist today.

I have nice Tahari ASL Navy skirt suit. with pumps and nylons . I think it is fine , but in a major meeting . you tell me if i would be on even grounds. Base your answers not what you would like to happen but what you think would happen


Add a belt with a gladius and a pugio, along with a parma (shield, sword and dagger) along with that outfit and an eager willingness to use them....you'd win.

On the other hand, what's a power suit? A powered and armored exoskeleton? Three-piece suit? Never owned one. Wingtip shoes? What's wrong with regular shoes? A tie? Ick. Probably why I'm still just a computer geek....

The skirt suit, IMO, would work better if it used a midi or a maxi skirt. Otherwise, take your power suit and replace the trousers with matching shorts.
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