Hasn't it already happened, at least the 2nd half of the sentencepelmut wrote:That may yet come to pass...Caultron wrote: .... if all men wore skirts and all women wore pants,
Uncle Al
Hasn't it already happened, at least the 2nd half of the sentencepelmut wrote:That may yet come to pass...Caultron wrote: .... if all men wore skirts and all women wore pants,
That's a biological/psychological grey area, so the answer is a weak "yes" qualified with innumerable exceptions and no two sociologists will agree on where biology leaves off and environment/culture begins. Consider the so-called "gender identity tests" like the COGIATI and the SAGE. They assume that you're either good at hard science (math, chemistry) or liberal arts (music, spelling) but not both, and the one you're good at determines what gender you are most closely aligned with. Do girls really have an affinity for colors and patterns because of the hormonal balance in their brains, or because that's how they were raised? Likely it's a little of both: There are some traits, such as aggression, that are obviously enhanced by androgen, but even without that society tends to reward aggression in boys and reward passivity in girls. But look at the result of sending women into the workforce when men were shipped off to fight World War II. Suddenly it was no longer impossible for women to understand engines, or do calculus to calculate spaceship trajectories, or run businesses. Did the women change overnight? Of course not; they always had those abilities but the ability was suppressed when they were expected to be housewives.Caultron wrote:But can anything so variable really be hard-wired at birth? Or is there some layer of abstraction that's hard-wired and broadly influences free choices?
Here's another list of ways researchers claim they have found male and female brains are different.In a study of 34 rhesus monkeys, for example, males strongly preferred toys with wheels over plush toys, whereas females found plush toys likable. It would be tough to argue that the monkeys’ parents bought them sex-typed toys or that simian society encourages its male offspring to play more with trucks.
Recent research suggests that the desire is hard-wired, but the way that desire is fulfilled will depend on external influences, mainly society.Caultron wrote:But can anything so variable really be hard-wired at birth? Or is there some layer of abstraction that's hard-wired and broadly influences free choices?pelmut wrote:Yep! That is exactly what gender is all about: the place you want to occupy in the society in which you find yourself.
I haven't taken the test. However, comparing my personality to the extremes of the gender binary, a woman friend commented that I am right in the middle, between conventional masculinity and conventional femininity. (Which is where I would place her personality).Sinned wrote:I have just taken the COGIATI test and my score was -60 classification 3 Androgyne, androgynous or both male and female at the same time.
What this means is that the Combined Gender Identity And Transsexuality Inventory has classified your internal gender identity to be essentially androgynous, both male and female at the same time, or possibly neither. In some cultures in history, you would be considered to be a third sex, independent of the polarities of masculine or feminine.
That is the general opinion of it in the transgender world. These sorts of tests rely on the subject subscribing to the same gender stereotypes as the person who wrote the test.JohnH wrote:I think the COGIATI test is not much better than for entertainment.
In general, sexual preferences are far more complex than the body automatically reacting in a certain way because of a particular chemical. On some of the transgender forums there have been occasional reports of people finding their sexual preferences change (or at least become more fluid) after taking hormones for a while, but this is not proof that the hormones were directly responsible. It is possible that after male-to-female transition the person finds they rather like these chivalrous men paying them attention - or it may be that the hormones have a liberating effect which removes previously suppressed inhibitions.Some say estrogen will rewire a man's brain, even to possibly changing ones sexual preference. Well, guess what. I'm still attracted to women, and the thought of me being intimate with a man disgusts me. My likes and skills are unaltered.
BOOM! There it is!Darryl wrote: Also...GIVEN: It is possible to read the Genesis account and see where Eve was NOT a subservient 'helper' but rather an equal partner with Adam. Paul says:Galatians 3:27-28 (NET1) For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female — for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.
In a very simplistic manner perhaps; however, is it not society/upbringing that influences how we see ourselves? For most people, if they are repeatedly told that they are a certain way then it becomes true. For instance, many eating disorders can be attributed to society's portrayal of body ideals. Also, children's self esteem can be ruined by consistently being told by their parents that they are stupid.... someone I knew was told by their mother "just because you passed your exams, don't think that you are intelligent".Fred in Skirts wrote:
You are who you think you are! Fred
The reverse seems more apparent to me.SkirtsDad wrote:...It sometimes feels, though, like the movement on gender expectations for men is placing more constrains, whilst offering very few concessions.
We can start with the ability to be empathetic and to cry from time to time. We can then move to an expectation of belligerence as opposed to civility. Or to strike first (frequently physically) instead of negotiating.Caultron wrote:What are some gender expressions for men you believe are more constrained now than in the past?
Carl, is this your inner Klingon speakingcrfriend wrote:...Or to strike first (frequently physically) instead of negotiating.
Well played, Sir.Uncle Al wrote:Carl, is this your inner Klingon speakingcrfriend wrote:...Or to strike first (frequently physically) instead of negotiating.