Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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moonshadow
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Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by moonshadow »

This is borderline relevant to us, however as it stands businesses that are LGBT friendly also generally tend to be progressive and accepting of just ordinary men who enjoy wearing things that ordinary women tend to (skirts and dresses).

Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 Corporate Equality Index

What makes this particularly remarkable is that "Food Lion", while currently owned by a company in Belgium, they are locally still considered a southern North Carolina company.

It's also ironic that had I not ran into the drama where I work, I would have never thought to give Food Lion my business, and only started shopping there because it was closer than driving all the way to the Bristol Walmart every week. In fact, when I was a child in my hometown of Bedford Virginia, Food Lion was the local super market of choice for many. In those days there were no Walmart supercenters everywhere, and if I'm not mistaken the only other supermarket in town was a Winn Dixie (who by the way fired a crossdresser about a decade ago for his off the clock practices).

... Always happy to support progressive businesses, and extra points when they're "southern" businesses... I know it's a risky call for them to take a such a stand in such a conservative area.
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by Caultron »

Well, this is interesting. The full public report is available at:

http://assets.hrc.org//files/assets/res ... -Final.pdf

The list of employers with ratings of 100 percent is Appendix A, starting on page 38.
The Fortune top 10 who got perfect scores were:

1 Wal-Mart Stores Inc.
3 Chevron Corp
5 Apple Inc.
6 General Motors Co.
8 General Electric Co.
9 Ford Motor Co.
10 CVS Health Corp.

Now, agreed, strictly speaking, these ratings indicate fair treatment only of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender persons. Still, if those categories are getting full and equal treatment, it seems that accommodating men in skirts should be a no-brainer.

Provided you can stand to be associated with that crowd.

And provided the hiring manager follows corporate procedures, and that he doesn't reject you for some other reason.

Still...
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by crfriend »

Caultron wrote:[...]Now, agreed, strictly speaking, these ratings indicate fair treatment only of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender persons. Still, if those categories are getting full and equal treatment, it seems that accommodating men in skirts should be a no-brainer.
Where are Wells Fargo and Chick Fil-A? The operative question that entered my mind upon reading that list of scoundrels is, "What does the 'rating agency' charge for a rating?"

In any event, save for edge-cases, the notion isn't applicable to the vast majority of men in circulation. "Diversity" is all well and good -- basic civility moreso -- but the PC notion has nothing to to with actual diversity, never-mind civil behaviour, and everything to do with staying clear of laws jammed through various legislatures by pressure groups.
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by Tor »

Wells Fargo is in there, but I promptly forgot the rating they gave it. From the criteria for rating I saw, it looks like only fortune 500 companies get ratings without responding to the survey.
crfriend wrote:"Diversity" is all well and good -- basic civility moreso -- but the PC notion has nothing to to with actual diversity, never-mind civil behaviour, and everything to do with staying clear of laws jammed through various legislatures by pressure groups.
This ^
human@world# ask_question --recursive "By what legitimate authority?"
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

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Well all this is well and good and may be nothing more than ultra PC in action... Still I'd rather see reports of businesses voluntarily accepting all rather than this.

While it may be the general consensus here that LBGT protections do not apply to us, and maybe even nothing more than PC dribble, make no mistake, the atmosphere of hate that is breeding on the other side of the spectrum, left unchecked WILL result in additional harassment and denial of services for the common Joe (male) skirt wearer. You can bet your bottom dollar on it.

It starts with transgender people, then snowballs to lesbian, gay, and bisexual people, then we scoop up people of other religious beliefs, finally it snowballs further, then before you know it Carl, you're being turned away at a Target, or worse, a government agency because the person behind the counter has a religious issue with how you're dressed, and the supreme court has ruled that they have every right to deny you service because you're wearing a skirt. While it's easy to avoid offending mom and pop stores, it gets a little tougher when it applies to everyday checkers in national chains... or what about when you apply for a drivers license or a license plate and the examiner takes "religious exemption" to your freedom to operate or register a motor vehicle? Where do we draw the line?

Sound crazy? Hold on... there are some who think women have no business driving an automobile!

Freedom for ALL or freedom for none! It's just that simple. And I think it's an absolute shame that we have to legislate and create laws just to force people to treat other people like human beings. What the hell is wrong with our species?

Now I can't say if this LBGT stuff is just far leaning liberal dogma, or NWO nonsense being shoved down our throat, or just runaway political correctness... All I can say is there's no room for hate in my heart, Food Lion has always treated me well with every visit, their prices are reasonable and they're the only ones who sell a certain flavor of ice cream I really like... So there... :P
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by Tor »

As for the scale of discrimination in action, it's not so hard to figure out where things should stand. The DMV clerk had better not act on it if they want to keep their job, whether someone from the alphabet soup annoyed at the religious or vice versa. The owners of the mom and pop store can do whatever they darn well please, and the long arm of the law had better keep clear, while the employees thereof would be wise to remember who butters their bread. The monster Fortune N companies... well, that one is a little more debatable in the mercantilist world of the US.

Honestly, I hope the alphabet soup folks have the sense to soon recognize where centre is, and let the pendulum gently return there, or I fear the return swing is liable to make a great deal of trouble for us. Sadly, I haven't seen much evidence of that occurring any time soon.
human@world# ask_question --recursive "By what legitimate authority?"
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by Caultron »

Moon, I'm not so pessimistic. The most negativity I've received in over four years of skirt wearing is a frown, and very few of those.

I must admit, though, that just because some giant corporations have some provisions in their HR policy manuals doesn't mean a new utopia has arrived.
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by moonshadow »

For those of you who got your email pinged on my reply, I made a last minute decision to scrap it as it was moving the discussion into the orange zone for politics/religion.

I have my views and opinions on matters... ultimately, the world will not act according to my whims, so my opinion on this matter is rather meaningless and really has nothing to do with skirts.

Suffice it to say, my aim is to live and let live. For those who want to walk with me, I'd love the company, for those who want to travel their own path... to each their own.
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

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Tor wrote:Honestly, I hope the alphabet soup folks have the sense to soon recognize where centre is, and let the pendulum gently return there, or I fear the return swing is liable to make a great deal of trouble for us. Sadly, I haven't seen much evidence of that occurring any time soon.
At issue seems to be the seeming propensity of "the pendulum" to increase the violence of its swings with each pass rather than the other way 'round. This is what is most troubling. Now, whether that will cause trouble for us lot remains to be seen.

From the tone of my prior message, it should be apparent that I got to deal with the mandated "diversity training" that everybody in the company has to go through annually (likely at great cost both in resources spent on sourcing the materials, time and productivity lost, and general disgust having been essentially told to behave like professional adults which should go without saying.
Caultron wrote:Moon, I'm not so pessimistic. The most negativity I've received in over four years of skirt wearing is a frown, and very few of those.
I share this viewpoint. Yes, there has been a fair bit of "cultural hardening" over the past several months -- mainly on the evening news -- but I haven't experienced any of it first hand. I hold my head high, no matter what I'm wearing, and treat folks with dignity and respect -- just the way I'd like to be treated. It's not difficult. It really isn't.

Ultimately, precisely the only time that any of this trans-*/sexual-orientation stuff matters even one whit is if you're looking for an intimate relationship. For that matter, it's the same way with most of the other hot-button issues as well.
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by Tor »

crfriend wrote:At issue seems to be the seeming propensity of "the pendulum" to increase the violence of its swings with each pass rather than the other way 'round.
At the rate it's going, I suspect this has something to do with the moderate folks seeing the wildness on one side, and in light of that, not being able to fault the other side when they get hold of it and add fuel to the return swing. That said, to abuse the pendulum metaphor, from what I see there is a big pendulum that has maintained trajectory for the last sixty years or more, and a smaller pendulum dangling from it that has swung back and forth.

In the civil rights area, sixty years ago there really was institutionalized racism/sexism against women and blacks. These days, I could name institutionalized racism/sexism favouring the aforementioned, but not the reverse. And yet it seems every day we hear screaming about racism and sexism seemingly as if nothing has changed.


As for "diversity training", thankfully I have never had the misfortune to be stuck in one of those things. I have heard enough from decent, intelligent people to feel sorry for anyone stuck listening to/watching such a load of rubbish.
human@world# ask_question --recursive "By what legitimate authority?"
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by oldsalt1 »

moonshadow wrote:Well all this is well and good and may be nothing more than ultra PC in action... Still I'd rather see reports of businesses voluntarily accepting all rather than this.


It starts with transgender people, then snowballs to lesbian, gay, and bisexual people, then we scoop up people of other religious beliefs, finally it snowballs further, then before you know it Carl, you're being turned away at a Target, or worse, a government agency because the person behind the counter has a religious issue with how you're dressed, and the supreme court has ruled that they have every right to deny you service because you're wearing a skirt. While it's easy to avoid offending mom and pop stores, it gets a little tougher when it applies to everyday checkers in national chains... or what about when you apply for a drivers license or a license plate and the examiner takes "religious exemption" to your freedom to operate or register a motor vehicle? Where do we draw the line?
Moonshadow please show me the supreme court ruling that states that they can deny you service because you are wearing a skirt
Last edited by crfriend on Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Fixed quoting
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

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Well, freedom of speech is generally thought of as freedom of expression these days, and I guess self-expression includes the clothing you want to wear.

Then again, no shoes, no shirt, no service seems to be OK.

Religious exemption from the law is a very sticky concept. This is the idea that freedom of religion permits a person to ignore laws and violate the rights of another person. The most well-known incidents lately have been:
  • My bakery shop can't make a wedding cake for this gay couple because that would be participating in their wedding and my religion forbids me to do that, and
  • Even though the law requires me to provide employee medical insurance that includes contraception, I can't do that because in my religion contraception is a sin.
At it's extreme, this could lead to, "My religion tells me that person is evil, and that evil people should be killed, so I killed him."

And then there are issues of what constitutes a religion, and knowing what that religion's beliefs actually are, and proving membership, and which religion. Personal relationships with God are particularly vague. Like, is it OK to say, "God spoke to me in a vision and told me not to pay income tax?"

One would think separation of church and state would preclude all this, but in the 60's and 70's, conscientious objection did exempt some people from the draft.

Back on earth (remember earth?), being denied service or employment because of wearing a skirt is probably illegal, but the problem is the time and money required to pursue a lawsuit. And the denier can always say there was some other reason.
Last edited by Caultron on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

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oldsalt1 wrote:[... P]lease show me the supreme court ruling that states that they can deny you service because you are wearing a skirt
Up until the Civil Rights Era the rights of individuals were viewed as inalienable and, as such, if you didn't want to interact with an individual for any reason, or no particular reason, whatsoever you were not compelled to do so. This extended to the rights of businesses and the whims of their proprietors. The above was a particularly bitter pill for the Jim Crow South to take when civil rights and anti-discrimination legislation was first passed in the 1960s.

It remains a bitter pill for many even today with all the expansions of that same legislation.

Since there's no "protected status" for guys who simply wear skirts because they prefer them to trousers there are no protections under the law, so businesses are free to turn us away if they see fit. It's silly of course, but it can happen, and I suppose in some really backwards parts does. However, the business by turning away potential customers is making a pretty strong statement on the matter not to mentioning needlessly alienating someone who might be profitable for them.

Yes, any guy who happens to prefer one tube to two could declare himself trans-* to take advantage of their protected status, but that's disingenuous at best and outright dishonest at worst. Gaming a system for personal gain is a very low-honour way to get things done.
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by moonshadow »

It was a hypothetical situation oldsalt.

There is no such case.
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Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:There is no such case.
However, that does not necessarily mean that you cannot be denied access to an establishment because of your attire. Straight males have no "cover" afforded by a protected status condition. It's open season. If your own demeanour can override objections, then great; otherwise, you'll have to find someplace else to eat.

Of note is that I have not once been hassled by the proprietor of any establishment, nor by any underlings. Money is money, and these folks know it.
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