Transgender activism

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Transgender activism

Postby whorton » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:59 pm

Transgender Advocates Want Media to Label Any Social Conservatives Who Oppose Them 'Hate Groups'


http://ijr.com/2017/04/849863-transgend ... dium=owned

Just my personal thoughts:

While as a crossdresser, I have obviously have no issue with anyone's presumed gender. The idea that anyone who disagrees however, is a "Hate group" is self serving and loathing of others.

Such behavior attempts to shut down any discussion. Consider the recent bathroom debacle. People that opposed the issue were NOT against transgender persons. They were concerned that sexual predators would use the ruling to gain access to bathroom spaces to foment sexual attacks, especially on their children. .

But in this case, the "Eliminate hate campaign" speaking presumably for the transgender side, immediately set upon making anyone who disagreed either a "HATER" or worse. . .

Thus, making the problem more contentious and divisive. There was never an issue with transgender who were passing or attempting to pass, in using womens bathrooms. Such individuals DO NOT want to draw attention to themselves. The issue has gone from an non issue to a contentious issue by government intervention.
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby crfriend » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:47 am

whorton wrote:The idea that anyone who disagrees however, is a "Hate group" is self serving and loathing of others.

This is typical behaviour of modern pressure groups who otherwise would not otherwise gain much traction. The notion is reprehensible, of course, and should be shouted down vigourously, but the loud and shrill usually triumph over the rest of society who have to worry about putting food on the table.

Sadly, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease instead of getting replaced....

Going shrill can get a pressure-group what it wants -- in the short term -- but it does very little to sway public opinion other than to anger the general populace or engender an increasing amount of "compassion fatigue" therein.
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby Jim2 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:45 am

whorton wrote:Consider the recent bathroom debacle. People that opposed the issue were NOT against transgender persons. They were concerned that sexual predators would use the ruling to gain access to bathroom spaces to foment sexual attacks, especially on their children.


Sorry, but I don't agree. I think the bathroom issue was mainly about intolerance of difference by social conservatives who can not accept change from the traditions that they were brought up with. Maybe there were others who were really concerned as you say, but I think the thought of sexual predators was mainly an excuse to force their own ideas about how to live on others, as well as a way to make people fearful and thus willing to go along with circumscribing the freedom of transgender individuals.

The headline of this article is very misleading. Nowhere in the article is there anything about any groups wanting the media to label any group that disagrees about transgender rights a hate group. Rather it talks about a coalition wanting to expose groups that try to use so-called Christian or family values to hide a hateful and deceitful nature. The article notes that one such group they want to expose is the Family Research Council. I completely agree with them. That group is despicable. I think the goal of exposing such groups for the sham that they are is noble. I don't know anything about the Independent Journal Review, but the way they have reported on this issue makes me wonder about their ideology.
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby whorton » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:37 am

crfriend wrote:Going shrill can get a pressure-group what it wants -- in the short term -- but it does very little to sway public opinion other than to anger the general populace or engender an increasing amount of "compassion fatigue" therein.


Very well spoken!

BTW, why a tetrode?
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby whorton » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:17 am

Jim2 wrote:
whorton wrote:Consider the recent bathroom debacle. People that opposed the issue were NOT against transgender persons. They were concerned that sexual predators would use the ruling to gain access to bathroom spaces to foment sexual attacks, especially on their children.


Sorry, but I don't agree. I think the bathroom issue was mainly about intolerance of difference by social conservatives who can not accept change from the traditions that they were brought up with. Maybe there were others who were really concerned as you say, but I think the thought of sexual predators was mainly an excuse to force their own ideas about how to live on others, as well as a way to make people fearful and thus willing to go along with circumscribing the freedom of transgender individuals.


Jim, Although numbers are difficult to quantify in that regard, there is some polling data that I believe support my contention. First the Pew Research group a survey which shows that overall, feelings about the issue were 51% felt "...allowed to use the public restroom of gender which they currently identify, while 46% ". . .required to use the public restrooms of the gender they were born into. (1) But the results were a bit more skewed with religious affinity:

FT_16.09.29_transgender_2.png


Which does lean towards your observation. However an article in the Washington Times (2) reports: (Statement from Family Research Council President Tony Perkins):

“President Obama has ignored the repeatedly expressed concerns of parents and school officials over the privacy and safety of students,” Mr. Perkins said in a statement. “In the pursuit of his radical agenda, the President has trampled upon the boundaries of his constitutional power.”

It continues:

"Democrats were evenly split on the issue, with 46 percent responding they disapprove and 45 percent saying they approve of the government’s involvement. Republicans overwhelmingly oppose such measures, while self-identified independents are against the idea by a 64 to 29 percent margin."

Which indicates that Democrats FAVOR government involvement to force the issue on those that disagree with the policy regardless of reason. The first statement regarding student safety has never been rebutted.

A Rasmussen poll conducted in Feb of 2017 found this(3)

"Support for allowing transgender students to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with is up from 33% last May, but opposition is down only slightly from 51%. Among Americans with elementary and secondary school age children, 55% were opposed at that time." and went on to note:

"However, just 28% of all Americans believe the federal government should be responsible for setting bathroom policies in elementary and secondary schools, compared to 24% last year. The same number (28%) say states should be responsible for such policies, while 36% say it should be up to local government. The Trump administration says state and local governments should be deciding transgender school bathroom policies."

So, the issue seems two fold, the number of people who believe the power of the federal government is required to solve a problem that most of us would agree was a NON issue before the the previous administration felt the need to insert federal edicts to enforce it. The resulting pushback was expected. I would add that the findings regarding the percentage of Americans with elementary and secondary school age children (at 55%) is a substantial uptick from the 33% figure of the preceding May.

Even the liberal New Yorker weighed in on the matter(4)

"The debate around which bathrooms transgender people should use has given rise to deeper questioning of why we even have a norm of gender segregation for bathrooms in the first place. But a push to make those spaces open to all genders comes up uneasily against feelings of female sexual vulnerability and their effect on an equal education or workplace. To make things more complicated, the risk of sexual assault and harassment of transgender females in male bathrooms is a salient reason for providing access to bathrooms according to gender identity, while many worry about transgender males being sexually bullied in male bathrooms." and continued. .

"The common denominator in all of these scenarios is fear of attacks and harassment carried out by males—not fear of transgender people. The discomfort that some people, some sexual-assault survivors, in particular, feel at the idea of being in rest rooms with people with male sex organs, whatever their gender, is not easy to brush aside as bigotry."


1. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... hould-use/

2. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... oom-order/

3. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... eral_issue

4. http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... -ix-crisis
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby crfriend » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:00 am

whorton wrote:BTW, why a tetrode?

It's the same reason as why I wear skirts -- Why not?

As far as the graphic above goes, to me that says something entirely different than what the original author wanted it to, and none of it is complimentary to church-goers.

I really wish the media would stop painting all men as predators and perverts. It's getting tedious.
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby whorton » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:18 pm

crfriend wrote:
whorton wrote:BTW, why a tetrode?

It's the same reason as why I wear skirts -- Why not?


I should have considered my query more carefully. "Is there any symbolism associated with using a Tetrode for a graphic? Perhaps amature radio?"

crfriend wrote:As far as the graphic above goes, to me that says something entirely different than what the original author wanted it to, and none of it is complimentary to church-goers.


Interesting perspective. Although for the life of me, the symbolism is immediately lost. I do sense a bit of hostility towards "church goers." I'll leave it at that. . .

crfriend wrote:I really wish the media would stop painting all men as predators and perverts. It's getting tedious.

Regarding the men as predators and perverts, I totally get your meaning. The only reason it came up was with regards to to my response about the bathroom bill and a previous comment which I took to indicate a belief that society was generally prejudicial towards transgender individuals. I honestly do not believe that is the case. More specifically, the whole bathroom issue originally came up with regards to educational facilities under Title IX.

In that case, the most vulnerable segment (young girls) were being forcibly intruded upon in a space where they might be reasonably expected to change cloths or otherwise expose themselves. It has been mentioned before, (but not in this thread) that young girls are very self conscious about their body image, and inserting random boys or men is a significant intrusion into their private space.
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby crfriend » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:40 pm

whorton wrote:"Is there any symbolism associated with using a Tetrode for a graphic? Perhaps amature radio?"

There's an association with my early days when I was involved with televisions -- yes, way back in the valve days. The pentode was a specialised type of receiving tube with very carefully-controlled characteristics. Had I been using it in a computing context, I'd have used a triode. Besides, the symbol looks cool. ;)
I do sense a bit of hostility towards "church goers." I'll leave it at that. . .

The perceived hostility is only directed at the subset of hard-core fanatics who make it their life's business to make sure that everyone adheres to their dogma and doctrine whether they believe in it or not.
Regarding the men as predators and perverts, I totally get your meaning. The only reason it came up was with regards to to my response about the bathroom bill and a previous comment which I took to indicate a belief that society was generally prejudicial towards transgender individuals. I honestly do not believe that is the case.

It's largely not an issue save to those who will make it their issue because it collides with their dogma.
More specifically, the whole bathroom issue originally came up with regards to educational facilities under Title IX.

In that case, the most vulnerable segment (young girls) were being forcibly intruded upon in a space where they might be reasonably expected to change cloths or otherwise expose themselves. It has been mentioned before, (but not in this thread) that young girls are very self conscious about their body image, and inserting random boys or men is a significant intrusion into their private space.

Lots of boys have quite a bit of body-consciousness going on whether they admit it or not. Male bravado goes a long way to hide such things, but trust me, boys are just as sensitive about the matter as girls. It has little to do with sex or gender and almost everything to do with being human and wanting to fit in.

Casting men as predators does no-one any favours.
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby whorton » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:09 am

crfriend wrote:There's an association with my early days when I was involved with televisions -- yes, way back in the valve days. The pentode was a specialised type of receiving tube with very carefully-controlled characteristics. Had I been using it in a computing context, I'd have used a triode. Besides, the symbol looks cool. ;)


Although at 57, I remember fondly the era of, as we americans call 'em, tubes. . . I remember taking quite an interest anytime the TV repairman would come and fix our poor old B&W. No doubt, they probably charged more becasue I pestered them with questions and demands to "have" the old tubes. . .I do miss the warm sound of Tube type equipment and even the old 5 tube AM receivers. Of course, the "solid state" age promised much, and generally delivered, yet something was lost as well. Could you imagine the size and power requirements for a iPhone based on tubes :shock:

crfriend wrote:The perceived hostility is only directed at the subset of hard-core fanatics who make it their life's business to make sure that everyone adheres to their dogma and doctrine whether they believe in it or not.


You do have a point there my friend. Sadly, such dogma has spilled over and made toxic the discussion of contemporary politics. Thanks to so many reasons, we have become depersonalized with regards to one-another, and the modern promise of the internet has been tainted greatly due to that fact.


crfriend wrote:Lots of boys have quite a bit of body-consciousness going on whether they admit it or not. Male bravado goes a long way to hide such things, but trust me, boys are just as sensitive about the matter as girls. It has little to do with sex or gender and almost everything to do with being human and wanting to fit in.


I certainly did not intend to diminish those same emotions for boys and young men. I suspect that to some degree, male bravado partly stems from such uncomfortable issues and not discovering more effective methods to deal with such issues. Not to mention, how that "male bravado" issue leads to additional problems down the line.

crfriend wrote:Casting men as predators does no-one any favours.


Once again, I totally agree. I am not sure where you are from, but in the states, we seem to be discovering a new case of younger female teachers having inappropriate relationships with younger male students, almost daily in fact. The depravity does not extend to the male domain by any means!
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby Darryl » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:56 am

"Starship Troopers" Now!

Community bathrooms/showers/etc....

I generally say 'whatever floats your boat' so long as your boat stays abaft the beam and you, as well as anything 'sent' by you, does not cross my gunwale uninvited.
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Re: Transgender activism

Postby Fred in Skirts » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:48 pm

Darryl wrote:"Starship Troopers" Now!
Community bathrooms/showers/etc....
I generally say 'whatever floats your boat' so long as your boat stays abaft the beam and you, as well as anything 'sent' by you, does not cross my gunwale uninvited.


As for community bathrooms and showers. I have used some and found them to be a non event. I have showered next to naked women and guys at the same time and it was all nice and peaceful. :D There were open stalls for the eliminations process and no one seemed to mind. I had no trouble at all. :wink:
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