Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Campaign
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
There's a reason why these things are called marketing campaigns, gentlemen. Let's not forget that. All the little "news outlets" are spouting precisely what the Louis Vuitton Company want them to.
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
This paragraph is great
are becoming accepting of Men-In-Skirts
(We can only hope....)
Uncle Al
I especially like the part of "when (not if)". Seems like more peopleThe Guardian wrote:It’s worth pointing out that Jaden’s outwardly straight, male identity makes it easier
for him to screw the gender binary in a mainstream context, and that’s far from ideal.
But it’ll be great when (not if) other kinds of people have similar mainstream moments.
And at some point, when no one cares any more about how anyone expresses their
gender – or only whether it’s exceptionally photogenic – it’ll be even better.
are becoming accepting of Men-In-Skirts
(We can only hope....)
Uncle Al
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
It's cheaper and easier for those "news outlets" to parrot and reword publicity press releases than to do actual journalism.crfriend wrote:There's a reason why these things are called marketing campaigns, gentlemen. Let's not forget that. All the little "news outlets" are spouting precisely what the Louis Vuitton Company want them to.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
Well, there is definitely lots of talk about this going on. This article is my favorite so far.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... n-him.html
The headline, I think, says it all: "Jaden Smith Skirts a Revolution—and More Men Should Join Him"
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... n-him.html
The headline, I think, says it all: "Jaden Smith Skirts a Revolution—and More Men Should Join Him"
Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
Would be great if the general public, and retailers, would understand this!The Daily Beast wrote:For a lasting shift in dressing to really register, the man-skirt
needs to leave the anything-goes bubble of the runway
and safe shores of celebrity peacock-ery and high fashion
advertising, and hit the populist stores of the local mall.
Uncle Al
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
More to the point on the article in Daily Beast:
In the ideal world, we'd (as societies) be able to cast aside the stereotypes and false-memories involved with style, and remove the sexual overloading that's so prevalent today. The point here is that skirts are a useful tool to have in one's closet, they look good (on both sexes), they can be functional and yet also fanciful, and that it simply doesn't make any rational sense that they be reserved for one sex or gender (which opens up several cans of worms) alone.
I'll not be counting the days 'til skirts in the men's section appear in the local big-box store, but I'll continue to do my small part in getting the trend some recognition, which is what I've been doing for the past decade and small change -- wearing skirts when I am in the proper mood to do so, and to try and project a compelling image to the onlooker.
I very much like, and appreciate, the term "freighted" in that article as it sums the situation we (not all men, mind, but at least most of us reading this particular forum) face each and every day. It also points up the main reason that this community exists, and that's to unload all the baggage that's been piled atop skirts for the past couple of hundred years -- to clear the air so that rationality and just plain sense of style has a chance to come to the fore instead of the same old knee-jerk reaction that usually happens when one mixes skirts and men into a paragraph and doesn't have men chasing skirts.[... Why] do we find the idea of a man wearing a dress to be so weird?
The ‘weird’ is how socially proscribed and verboten wearing a dress or skirt for men has become; how it has become freighted with assumptions about sexual and gender identity.
In the ideal world, we'd (as societies) be able to cast aside the stereotypes and false-memories involved with style, and remove the sexual overloading that's so prevalent today. The point here is that skirts are a useful tool to have in one's closet, they look good (on both sexes), they can be functional and yet also fanciful, and that it simply doesn't make any rational sense that they be reserved for one sex or gender (which opens up several cans of worms) alone.
I'll not be counting the days 'til skirts in the men's section appear in the local big-box store, but I'll continue to do my small part in getting the trend some recognition, which is what I've been doing for the past decade and small change -- wearing skirts when I am in the proper mood to do so, and to try and project a compelling image to the onlooker.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
What annoys me is the way the press hook onto some "personality"* as if he were sole pioneer, the absolute forerunner, achieving something that no-one else has done before.
I would have said that this kid has jumped on the bandwagon developed by thousands of men over the past few decades (eg: members of forums such as here, and many others that remain anonymous and feel no need to justify their clothing choice). He is getting paid to do what we have been doing for years gratis.
*I was not sure what term to use here. I'd never heard of JS, who belongs in an age-group that does not interest me. Whether he has any merits or talents, I would not know, but it appears simply that he has a media-recognized parent. Does that make him a trend-setter? or just someone being used by the advertisers? I was wearing open garments before he was born.
Martin
I would have said that this kid has jumped on the bandwagon developed by thousands of men over the past few decades (eg: members of forums such as here, and many others that remain anonymous and feel no need to justify their clothing choice). He is getting paid to do what we have been doing for years gratis.
*I was not sure what term to use here. I'd never heard of JS, who belongs in an age-group that does not interest me. Whether he has any merits or talents, I would not know, but it appears simply that he has a media-recognized parent. Does that make him a trend-setter? or just someone being used by the advertisers? I was wearing open garments before he was born.
Martin
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
Agreed!crfriend wrote:I very much like, and appreciate, the term "freighted" in that article as it sums the situation we (not all men, mind, but at least most of us reading this particular forum) face each and every day. It also points up the main reason that this community exists, and that's to unload all the baggage that's been piled atop skirts for the past couple of hundred years -- to clear the air so that rationality and just plain sense of style has a chance to come to the fore instead of the same old knee-jerk reaction that usually happens when one mixes skirts and men into a paragraph and doesn't have men chasing skirts.
In the ideal world, we'd (as societies) be able to cast aside the stereotypes and false-memories involved with style, and remove the sexual overloading that's so prevalent today. The point here is that skirts are a useful tool to have in one's closet, they look good (on both sexes), they can be functional and yet also fanciful, and that it simply doesn't make any rational sense that they be reserved for one sex or gender (which opens up several cans of worms) alone.
As I've been following this thread, this thought had occurred to me as well. However upon consideration, I realized that this is just par for the course in the celebrity world. Such as it seems to be for many-a-celebrity trend setters. Take for example, Bruce Jenner, while he certainly wasn't the first to totally reassign his gender, his celebrity status definitely made an impact. And I'm sure there are more than a few below the radar, everyday transgender "Jane's" that can reflect on the "hard days" decades ago when they may have lost families, jobs, and received a fair amount of a_s beatings for their transgendering decision. Then along comes Bruce.... who most likely suffered NONE of that, most likely made hoards of new friends, and most likely is a lot better off financially for the decision.Couya wrote:What annoys me is the way the press hook onto some "personality"* as if he were sole pioneer, the absolute forerunner, achieving something that no-one else has done before.
I would have said that this kid has jumped on the bandwagon developed by thousands of men over the past few decades (eg: members of forums such as here, and many others that remain anonymous and feel no need to justify their clothing choice). He is getting paid to do what we have been doing for years gratis.
*I was not sure what term to use here. I'd never heard of JS, who belongs in an age-group that does not interest me. Whether he has any merits or talents, I would not know, but it appears simply that he has a media-recognized parent. Does that make him a trend-setter? or just someone being used by the advertisers? I was wearing open garments before he was born.
Yeah, they really are nothing more than a bunch of Johnny-come-lately's. But the added publicity doesn't hurt. I just hope that some day, they can give at least a little recognition to the thousands who came before, who have put their lives in real states of risk to follow their heart. Not all of us have the social and financial resources that Jaden ad Bruce (sorry... Caitlin) have. Speaking for myself, I still live with the fear that I'll be spotted by someone with some clout at work who doesn't approve of my off the clock choices, and I get fired.
And yes, despite what you may have been told, you CAN get fired for this... legally, it is NOT discrimination at least in Virginia/Tennessee.... although it should be. And unlike Jaden, I can't just waltz into a designer studio and start getting paid for posing in skirts for magazines. I'll most likely have to revert to serving fries and living in some hole in the wall inner city apartment because nobody around here is going to give some "perverted crossdresser" *** a middle class job.
But I continue to chance it, because one can not live his life in fear.
*** Of course, I would hope by now, most of you already understand my writing style, and realize that no... I'm not calling crossdressers perverts, nor to I mean to use the word in a negative connotation, but simply that many if not most people around here will think of me accordingly, especially as I tend to wear the more feminine skirts.... As it is... I've personally witnessed many-a-parents embrace their children and carry them far away from me when I enter department stores. Jaden, probably has no idea what that's like, as people in his circle will flock to him just for the celebrity status.... to put it another way... he probably doesn't know what it's like to be shunned.
-Andrea
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
Although I do also think that Carl is correct on this.... although I hope he's wrong...crfriend wrote:I'd not be surprised one bit to hear that Jaden will be undergoing SRS in a couple of years' time.
That would be a shame for boys and men who... (especially young boys) may be looking to Jaden as a sort of inspirational hero of sorts. These boys may want to wear skirts and dresses, but have no desire to be a girl. It would be a blow to them if JS would to decide he "no longer wants to be male".
-Andrea
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
When most people transition, it is not because they have changed their mind about what gender they want to be; it is because they want to be allowed to live their life as the gender they feel they have always been - and no longer want to have to pretend to be something they never have been. It is a subtle difference (and not easy to grasp at first), but it is fundamental to understanding what transitioning is all about.moonshadow wrote: These boys may want to wear skirts and dresses, but have no desire to be a girl. It would be a blow to them if JS would to decide he "no longer wants to be male".
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
Well put, Pelmut.pelmut wrote:When most people transition, it is not because they have changed their mind about what gender they want to be; it is because they want to be allowed to live their life as the gender they feel they have always been - and no longer want to have to pretend to be something they never have been. It is a subtle difference (and not easy to grasp at first), but it is fundamental to understanding what transitioning is all about.moonshadow wrote: These boys may want to wear skirts and dresses, but have no desire to be a girl. It would be a blow to them if JS would to decide he "no longer wants to be male".
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
Well.... true enough... but he's not just "most people". Hes possibly a role model to an untold number of kids. From what I read so far he is handling all of this with virtue. And should he decide to go all the way, that's his right as a human. But I just hope he has consideration for those who look up to him, and handles it accordingly.dillon wrote:Well put, Pelmut.pelmut wrote:When most people transition, it is not because they have changed their mind about what gender they want to be; it is because they want to be allowed to live their life as the gender they feel they have always been - and no longer want to have to pretend to be something they never have been. It is a subtle difference (and not easy to grasp at first), but it is fundamental to understanding what transitioning is all about.moonshadow wrote: These boys may want to wear skirts and dresses, but have no desire to be a girl. It would be a blow to them if JS would to decide he "no longer wants to be male".
Just sayin.....
-Andrea
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
If he is truly transgender the pressure to transition will eventually become unbearable, so his options will be 1) to transition, 2) to force himself to live a lie under increasing pressure, or 3) to commit suicide. Of these three, transitioning is the least bad and is becoming more and more understood and sympathetically received (at least in the U.K.), especially by youngsters.moonshadow wrote:... but he's not just "most people". Hes possibly a role model to an untold number of kids. From what I read so far he is handling all of this with virtue. And should he decide to go all the way, that's his right as a human. But I just hope he has consideration for those who look up to him, and handles it accordingly.
Just sayin.....
Where he does have a choice is in how he deals with transition. There is an increasing catalogue of good and bad examples to choose from, so let us hope (if he transitions) that he gets good professional advice, follows the best examples and sets the best possible example to his followers in difficult circumstances which are not of his choosing.
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
One would hope that part of the assistance received from the professionals would be to ascertain whether the transition is really necessary or whether it's being driven by other forces (e.g. to gain advantage or simple and resolvable confusion). In this case, the individual is getting old enough to be beyond the "simple confusion" stage (unless he's really developmentally-stunted), but the notion of trying to gain advantage -- either real or perceived -- may be a factor.pelmut wrote:Where he does have a choice is in how he deals with transition. There is an increasing catalogue of good and bad examples to choose from, so let us hope (if he transitions) that he gets good professional advice, follows the best examples and sets the best possible example to his followers in difficult circumstances which are not of his choosing.
If he is on that trajectory it'll probably not make much difference for us oldsters, but for the younger crowd it might be another large nail in the coffin of exploring anything outside "traditional gender-limited styles". Whatever happens, though, the Earth will continue to revolve on its axis and night will follow day which will follow night. My prognostication is that the sky will not fall.
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Re: Jaden Smith Stars In Louis Vuitton's New Womenswear Camp
From everything I know about him, and from what I've heard him say, I really don't think Jaden Smith has an issue with his gender identity. But I do see him having a big issue with gender stereotypes, which I believe he has made his goal to attack and try to undermine. I think our society has become so preoccupied with issues of gender identity that we've begun to mix them up with questions about gender stereotypes. But the two are really separate. I don't feel that my breaking with gender stereotypes by wearing skirts has anything at all to do with my gender identity. I don't see myself getting in touch with my "feminine" side. The phrase itself seems loaded with assumptions about gender stereotypes. If skirts are not clothing for females, then what does wearing one have to with my gender identity, or even my "feminine" side, whatever that is? I don't know Jaden Smith's thoughts about such things, but I don't think he sees himself as a female. And it is clear that he definitely dislikes gender stereotypes, after all, he made clear that when he bought skirts last spring they were not "women's" skirts. I do think he is really going to help the cause of men wearing skirts a great deal. It could finally influence a generation of young people who are now in their teens to try it. Unlike someone like Kanye West, who after being attacked for wearing a skirt, asked for all pictures of him with one on be taken down, Jaden is not backing down. And he's getting lots of support online. This Louis Vuitton ad may go down in history as a significant event. I could be wrong, but I think he has had the luck to step forward on this issue at a propitious time.