Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

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Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby Jim2 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:48 am

http://www.cbc.ca/q/blog/2015/01/22/gender-neutral-fashion/ At about 4 minutes in, she starts discussing that gender neutral is often taken to mean women wearing men's clothing, and attacks the idea that men can't wear skirts, and discusses why men are resistant to it.

I found this from http://www.scoop.it/t/pink-and-blue, which is a useful site that lists articles related to gender and clothing. There are a bunch of recent articles on gender neutral clothing listed there. I haven't had time yet to look at more than this one.
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby Grok » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:28 am

What would a gender neutral skirt look like?

Or is this just more of the same, women appropriating items from the male side of the aisle?
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby crfriend » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:01 am

Grok wrote:What would a gender neutral skirt look like?

My guess would be that it'd look like a skirt. :P All the "embellishments to make it look "masculine" or "feminine" are just that -- embellishments.
Or is this just more of the same, women appropriating items from the male side of the aisle?

We shall see. Some of the rhetoric was moderately encouraging, but the proof will be in the pudding.

Hearing decent rhetoric is a nice thing, but I have been deceived in the past.
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby denimini » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:28 am

Grok wrote:What would a gender neutral skirt look like?


Probably grey or brown without much flare, a bit like a sack - I bet it wouldn't be pink or frilly.

I have spent a lifetime of dismay with menswear.

I really don't think gender neutral helps us at all in freedom to wear what we want to wear.

It will probably be a long time, if ever, before there is no mens and womens catagories but until then we have to just consider them as an indication of colour choice, size, shape and where you might find a dress or a skirt. It would make more sense to have body shape or style catagories. Move a few items around and have business & casual or cheerfull & somber.

I tend to buy all my jeans, shorts and cargo pants from womenswear because they fit my lower body shape better. I buy most of my shirts from menswear because they fit better across the shoulders and upper arms, although there is not as good choice of colour and material. I buy my skirts from womenswear because that is the only place to find them. Most store change rooms are unisex now, otherwise I use the mens.

If you like it and it fits - wear it.
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby Kingussie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:52 am

Jim2 wrote:At about 4 minutes in, she starts discussing that gender neutral is often taken to mean women wearing men's clothing, and attacks the idea that men can't wear skirts, and discusses why men are resistant to it.


Jim, I watched the video & noticed the standard "The world is going to hell in a handcart" remarks in the comments section. :roll:
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby Jim2 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:24 am

My interest wasn't in the store this woman has created. I found her views on clothing refreshing. People like her talking up is part of how things change. And I disagree that the gender neutral movement is unimportant to men who want society to accept that there is nothing unnatural about men wearing skirts. Words matter, and what these words say, even if people are not yet following through on them like we'd like them to, is that all clothing should be for all people. Change like this doesn't come so quickly. It takes lots of little changes and especially changes of mindset. And then one day, poof, it is visible. But the ground was prepared by everything that came earlier. The current attitudes of young people about gender are way different than those of their elders. I've read that it is a change the likes of which have not been seen for generations. Sociological studies are showing this to be a worldwide phenomena. This woman's attitudes and the mere fact that she seriously discussed the issue of men wearing skirts (and not as cross dressers) shows that things are shifting. Sometimes I think that many of you are just too burnt out.
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby Grok » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:43 am

Not burnt out. Like crfriend, I have been deceived in the past, and have become a skeptic.

I will believe it when I see it.
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby denimini » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:10 am

Jim2 wrote:And I disagree that the gender neutral movement is unimportant to men who want society to accept that there is nothing unnatural about men wearing skirts.


I suppose my criticism of gender neutral clothing is it seems to be currently applied to a few items specifically designed to "feminise" some male garment or "masculinise" a female one. I think this is limiting and still based on old conventions.
The woman with the store has a better approach in taking any garment, describing the size and fit and offering it to anyone.

Jim2 wrote:Words matter, and what these words say, even if people are not yet following through on them like we'd like them to, is that all clothing should be for all people.


Yes, all clothing should be considered as gender neutral. Some styles will better suit some body shapes regardless of gender.

Jim2 wrote:The current attitudes of young people about gender are way different than those of their elders. I've read that it is a change the likes of which have not been seen for generations. Sociological studies are showing this to be a worldwide phenomena.


I have noticed this too and am encouraged by it and think that this will be the real driving force for change. I only wished it had happened when I was young.
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby freefire » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:53 pm

while pink&blue is interesting,and refreshing,I found the attached articles and videos facinating,whether skirt connected or not espectially Ted x salon ,most of the tedx articles are mind blowing-freefire-Gael Wakelee
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby Sinned » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:26 pm

I'm hijacking this thread a little. Something occurred to me the other day. In another thread we discussed ear rings and the meaning of wearing in either left or right. Well, when I decided to wear an ear ring I couldn't ascertain which was the correct side for a heterosexual so I decided to do both and did. It also appealed to my feminine side at the time. Couldn't you have goggled it, you may ask. Well this was in 1989 way before the internot was even a twinkle and inter-computer communications was a bit of a black art - AppleTalk, Kermit et al were still around then. Ah, memories! What occurred to me was that I was wearing in both ears about 20 years before it has become fashionable for men now. I think that I may be twenty years at the forefront of fashion with skirts as well. I think it's satisfying to be a fashion leader. Well done everyone. :twisted:

Anybody else with similar stories?
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby Gordon » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:53 pm

Yes I've had a pierced ear since the 80's also. Just the right one. When I did it I had no idea that it meant anything about your sexual persuasion. Currently I have two holes in each ear.
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby Kingussie » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:17 am

My ears were pierced back in 1985. This Aug. marks 30 years so I need to think of some way to celebrate. :wink: I thought the sexual preference symbolism at the time was absolute b.s. and I didn't think I should be regarded as a 2nd-class citizen because I have a Y chromosome. At the time, very few guys had both ears pierced so I was really "out there". Since that fateful day, I've collected additional holes on a one-by-one basis. Am up to 5 now - 3 in the left & 2 in the right - and will probably leave it there.
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Re: Discussion of gender neutral clothing and men in skirts

Postby Taj » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:03 pm

First hole, left side, 1975. Second hole (left again) more recent. I've considered getting one hole in the right side. I have garnet (red) and tourmaline (green) studs in my collection. I've been a sailor and still navigate kayaks and a canoe. I could display port and starboard colors so you would not have to watch my wake to see my direction of travel.
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