Rigid gender stereotypes

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby hoborob » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:09 pm

There is a very old statement that goes, 'If a man wish to be ignorant, let him be ignorant." This statement applies to many in our world. Those that choose to be intelligent are and act that way, they choose by their own volition to actively seek out information and knowledge about a subject and then to act accordingly. the there are those that choose to believe whatever propaganda is out there and then choose to act accordingly and remain ignorant of the information that states the opposite of the propaganda is really the truth. These are those that are often referred to as trailer trash, those that live in ignorance and wish to continue to live so, so that their own views can be justified by their own ignorance. That is not to say that there are not those that live in trailers that are very intelligent and act that way. The true "trailer trash" are those that lash out with insults and ignorance rather than to ask and thus learn about different views and opinions. By that same definition we can include in the "trailer trash" those that insist and demand that we all conform to their codes of standards and to their labels of who everyone is and to reduce ourselves to their levels of bigotry and their ignorance.
User avatar
hoborob
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:03 pm

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby JennC03 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:17 pm

SkirtsDad wrote:
crfriend wrote:
moonshadow wrote:And so, the practice of a man wearing a skirt is bound to decrease the likelihood that he will find himself in jail down the road as he has a better chance of pairing up with a more level headed woman rather than your typical run of the mill trailer trash.

I aver this to not be the case as I found out the hard way when my ex-'s brain died. Rational, level-headed, and intelligent women are just as able to call the cops as any bimbo. And once the accusation is in, the guy is guilty as charged unless he can successfully prove the negative and assert his innocence.

What a very warped conversation this has become. Why do you keep referring to women as "trailer trash" moon? Using the term "bimbo" crfriend is hardly any better. These are women from all walks of life, many of whose history you probably don't know.

If you want to look at people's behaviour I feel you would be better looking at the statistics and talk to people around you. Where I am, I have known at least 24 women that have been raped, one that was beaten over the head with a brick and left for dead. You can add to that a few more that have had their ribs broken by their partners and ended up in hospital. If I look at some of the drug addicts and prostitutes I know then these were repeatedly raped as children..... by men. Yes I do know 2 men that were raped, or should I say buggered, as children by adult men (one a priest).

Whilst I appreciate I know very little about your lives, I find it hard to imagine that you can realistically justify your derogatory slang whist talking about women with whom you appear not to have an empathy. I think this forum would be a better place if people were more respectful of others, and in the above, women in particular.



Hi Skirtsdad.

Moon also has a wife (Me that was raped at 16 molested at 4) he understands where you're coming from in the terms you mentioned. However let me explain something. I'm not sure where you live but they're are people in our neck of the woods that refer to being trailer trash. No not all woman or even men are but its a term that is used. What does this mean? Its a term that's used for people some that has no pride in anything they do what so ever. From their clothing choices to how they live. They will go into stores wearing sloppy clothes, babies in filthy clothes won't work and take from the government and tax payers hard earned money. They lack a proper education. Now Moon is just stating what parts of his family are and yes he's been around them. You don't live here you don't see what we go through or even the ridicule we all get living where we do. You don't see how Moon has to practically beg for anything out of life and when we struggle we are turned away but people who,refuse to work a day in their lives and everything's handed to them. Its really not fair to the working man. Moons point was there's a lot out there that can do as they please and dress as they please and no one bats an eye but the moment someone sees a man in a skirt and the whole world goes up in smoke over it.
¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆Have a wonderful day! ☆•*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* * It's good to look at those we love with fresh eyes whenever we can to remind us how lucky we are to have their light in our lives.
User avatar
JennC03
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:13 am

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby moonshadow » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:18 pm

I appreciate the nod Mike, and perhaps I may have come off a bit strong and falling guilty of that which I was ranting about (reading too much into something).

However it's just become such a sore spot for me, I don't mind a debate, and there are more than a few occasions here have apologized for something I said regardless of whether or not I meant any ill by the remark in question. While on other occasions if I get miffed about something, it seems people just ignore it, or move on leaving me to lick my own wounds. To be fair, this isn't really a skirtcafe issue, more an issue of meat space.

I can accept and will even grant that I am quite often mistaken, or just out right wrong on a view or opinion of mine, but I do get greatly irked when something I say is manipulated and twisted around and then used against me. That's what sent me over the edge, and it's becoming an all too common problem.

Although as it's been said in the past, that the trouble with the written word, particularly the internet, is it's difficult to convey context and depth in engaging in written correspondence. Perhaps I took SD's comment in the wrong context, and had I had been speaking with him face to face the tone would have actually been more soft and understanding. If that was indeed the case than I do apologize.

Perhaps the other part that send me over a bit was the subject matter. Not to make light of the plight of battered and abused women, but the fact is that many men do fall victim to abusive situations. This forum has it's fair share of horror stories in that regard. A lot of it comes down the the proliferation of... here is is (and back on topic)... rigid gender stereotypes .

But explain to me, why is it if a woman strikes a man on TV with a cast iron skillet, it's slap stick comedy, yet if a man strikes a woman with the same piece of cookware it's greatly condemned? We have seen in our own news reports, of angry girlfriends totally wailing on men, and when it's reported and you scroll down to those damned facebook comments, the prevalent view point seems to hover around "he must have done something to provoke her!" Every now and then someone might comment a remark on how this is a matter of abuse, and this person is greeted with replies of being called a misogynist pig.... :?

Why is this? For ever since I've been old enough to follow social customs, one thing I learned pretty early on in life, and that is, due to my sex, my blood just isn't worth anything, and the only way I'll find acceptance is if I sit down, shut up, and know my place. My gender role is to provide, not be provided for, to care, not be cared for, to listen, not speak, to be hit, but not defend myself, and if I should be raped, my role is to like it and be counted lucky that I should have the gracious gift of sex with a woman and not have to pay for it.

I think this is why so many people (men and women) are irked by my choice in clothing. Wearing skirts and dresses can AND does complicate my standing with society at large. It has the potential to greatly damage my reputation, and thus my ability to turn a dollar. This equates to my ability or inability to make a living, and (here comes that word again)... provide for my family. My role in society isn't to "look pretty", wear dresses, skirts, or anything else. My job is to dress in a manner to increase my earning potential so that I may be a good provider for women and children who may depend on me...

Men aren't allowed to have a soul, souls are a distraction... our job is to make life easy for people. Well I'll be damned! (no pun intended :wink: )

On another note, I used to think there are no shelters for battered men in the U.S.... I realized upon reflection of this topic that I was greatly in error here...

The fact is, there are shelters for battered men, and other men who have fallen victim of the strict gender roles and stereotypes placed upon them by years of social conditioning.... and you're never further than fifty to a hundred miles from one....

It's called a prison....

... think about it.... if you and the old lady get into a physical fight one day, and I mean one where BOTH are at fault of hitting each other, she goes to a shelter, you go to the pen... (and I ain't talking about a utensil for writing...)
-Moonshadow
The Eccentric Moon (skirt/dress photos)
My clothes do not regender me, I regender my clothes!
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Venars

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby moonshadow » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:29 pm

moonshadow wrote:I think this is why so many people (men and women) are irked by my choice in clothing. Wearing skirts and dresses can AND does complicate my standing with society at large. It has the potential to greatly damage my reputation, and thus my ability to turn a dollar. This equates to my ability or inability to make a living, and (here comes that word again)... provide for my family. My role in society isn't to "look pretty", wear dresses, skirts, or anything else. My job is to dress in a manner to increase my earning potential so that I may be a good provider for women and children who may depend on me...


Please understand SD, and all our other friends on this site over on the other side of the pond, and I say this with a gentle (not ranting) tone, most states in the U.S. have NO protections for people like us (men who wear skirts and dresses). Finding a way to make a living involves having the respect of the community at large. It can be a cat and mouse game over here. We can't just cry "discrimination" when we're faced with an injustice, because the simple fact of the matter is, there are no laws to protect us. We have to rely on our wit, and our ability to negotiate our very freedom in order to survive, and playing the "I'm offended" card is a social NO GO in the U.S. south.

I think this is why many Americans have a reputation for being so mean, rude, and callus when compared to other western cultures in Europe and even Canada. Only the strong survive over here friends, and if you're going to be a guy who wears skirts and dresses stateside, ESPECIALLY in the south, you'd better have some tough skin and the ability to play a little politics, because it's dog eat dog over here.

So with that in mind, SD, and others, please understand my intention is not to offend on this site. I'll ask you to please be understanding that my euphemisms, phrases, and other comments are simply the result of years and years of struggling to make it, and FWIW, I feel IS directly responsible for my NOT loosing my job when my skirting was outed...

Simply put, (and not trying to offend), but I avoided the "you hurt my feelings" card at work on that fateful night. Rather, I raised hell! Now I really don't know if that made a difference... but I am still employed there.
-Moonshadow
The Eccentric Moon (skirt/dress photos)
My clothes do not regender me, I regender my clothes!
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Venars

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby Fred in Skirts » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:12 pm

Right on Moon, Since I also live in the southern part of the US I know what you are talking about. I have watched my money go down the drain when my first wife cheated on me and then went for a divorce she claimed I beat her ( fact that I did not do any such thing). Who ended up having to pay through the nose for her infidelity Me, I was the offender here not her. My lawyer managed to get the abuse off the record but the judge still hit me hard. I managed not to go to jail. :x

Since all I wear now are skirts and dresses I have made sure others know that it takes a real man to do so, and do not back down at all. In the American South actions speak and words don't!!! :eye:
Fred :kiltdance:

:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts all of the time. :hooray:
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not"
Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
User avatar
Fred in Skirts
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1086
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:48 pm
Location: Southeast Corner of Aiken County, SC USA

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby Grok » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:04 am

A few years ago, while browsing in the public library, I came across the book Men On Strike by Helen Smith. In her book, she discussed issues such as divorce. She also discussed Men Going Their Own Way. This is a reference to men (often divorced) who have chosen to remain single the rest of their lives.
Grok
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:21 am

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby crfriend » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:19 am

Grok wrote:A few years ago, while browsing in the public library, I came across the book Men On Strike by Helen Smith. In her book, she discussed issues such as divorce. She also discussed Men Going Their Own Way. This is a reference to men (often divorced) who have chosen to remain single the rest of their lives.

Divorces are not only emotionally devastating to men, frequently because they tend to come as bolts from the blue, but are also financially devastating as well. Many guys can handle one or the other, but both at the same time is a recipe for catastrophe. Throw in the added threat if there's a criminal charge involved (frequently false) -- which can ruin a man's career in an instant -- it's almost certain to have very, very serious consequences, probably leading to loss of life.

So, with the above in mind, it doesn't seem odd to me at all that "Once bitten, twice shy" can be the order of the day for a lot of guys. One cannot blame them, really; they're emotionally wounded, possibly suffer from PTSD (depending on precisely how nasty things got), and economically are netting less than half of what they used to -- in addition to being out of a home. Why would anyone expose themselves to that sort of risk again?

I would be thrilled to be romantically involved once again -- and have gotten close -- but I'm very, very, wary of any sort of deep commitment given what's been dealt to me in the past. I darned near wound up dead from it; I don't want to get that close again until it's really "time".
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 8400
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby Grok » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:31 am

It occurred to me that, if you are going to be single for the rest of your life, one option for going your own way is alternative forms of dress. :idea:
Grok
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:21 am

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby crfriend » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:37 am

Grok wrote:It occurred to me that, if you are going to be single for the rest of your life, one option for going your own way is alternative forms of dress. :idea:

And thus we come full circle to where things are now where men cannot wear anything other than what's dictated to them by the mass-market and entirely unimaginative mass of much of femaledom. Charming. Just charming.

Let's just give up, then.

! not (that's a computing term, expressed as a double-negative)
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 8400
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby JohnH » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:04 am

And no wonder why there are so many men seeking to become women as compared to women becoming men (look at Crossdressers.com).

John
User avatar
JohnH
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:46 am
Location: Irving, Texas USA

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby moonshadow » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:49 am

crfriend wrote:And thus we come full circle to where things are now where men cannot wear anything other than what's dictated to them by the mass-market and entirely unimaginative mass of much of femaledom. Charming. Just charming.


Indeed. And while we could note that there are still women who accept a man who wears clothes such as skirts or dresses, it should also be noted that I think most of the time, these women are "converts", and that most women generally by their default position are put off by it. I'd say it takes a man in a previous relationship to turn her on to the idea.

Take Jenn for example, it never occurred to her (or me for that matter) that men in skirts was even a thing when we met 17 years ago. And yet here we are today.

But yeah, the only way in my opinion the majority of women wouldn't take issue with M.I.S. is if it became as commonplace as W.I.T. (women in trousers), and thus they are essentially forced into acceptance because all the guys are doing it.

For I will tell you, that in my talks with other men, while virtually every man accepts a woman in trousers, they will ALL agree that nothing turns them on more than a woman in a skirt or pretty dress....

Rigid gender stereotypes indeed!
-Moonshadow
The Eccentric Moon (skirt/dress photos)
My clothes do not regender me, I regender my clothes!
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Venars

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby Grok » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:47 pm

moonshadow wrote:Indeed. And while we could note that there are still women who accept a man who wears clothes such as skirts or dresses, it should also be noted that I think most of the time, these women are "converts", and that most women generally by their default position are put off by it.
I think that people-including females-get used to things being a certain way as they grow up.

In the case of the West, the rule has been that a male always wears twin pipes. So that is what women are used to.
Grok
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:21 am

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby Caultron » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:43 pm

Grok wrote:I think that people-including females-get used to things being a certain way as they grow up.

In the case of the West, the rule has been that a male always wears twin pipes. So that is what women are used to.

I agree.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby Grok » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:26 pm

And I have to wonder if MIS causes cognitive dissonance in some people. Such as...some wives? :?:
Last edited by Grok on Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Grok
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:21 am

Re: Rigid gender stereotypes

Postby Grok » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:49 pm

crfriend wrote:Indeed, and I regard it as sad that many of us do need to keep our gentility under a blanket lest anyone else sense it, perceive it as weakness, and try to take advantage of it. However, that's much akin to "hiding your light under a bucket"; it's double-edged.
I think society lost something when gentlemen became old fashioned/out of date. Maybe women can't appreciate a gentlemen because no prestige is attributed to them anymore? Is there any way to revive such prestige? Could gentlemen ever again be valued?

I think that the Gentleman would be a fine alternative model for masculinity. Something to bring back.

But I can imagine one difference from the past-a 21st century gentlemen having the option of wearing skirts.
Grok
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:21 am

PreviousNext

Return to In the News / Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest