Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

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Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby RyeOfTheDead » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:22 pm

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Last edited by RyeOfTheDead on Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby Milfmog » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:43 pm

RyeOfTheDead wrote:I'm really annoyed that the girl's jeans thread was locked. I can understand redacting the messages that were inappropriate for the forum, in fact I'm the one who reported the one all about being excited about showing off one's unmentionables, because this is not the place for that. However, the thread itself was tucked into the Fashion Freedom section, and not in the "men in skirts" or "kilts, kilts" board. I'm not saying I want to have long discussions about wearing women's jeans, I do it, they're comfy, end of discussion for me, but I just in general have an issue with unnecessary censorship.

ROTD,

Uncle Al stated his reasons in the thread before locking it. If these are not sufficient I'd suggest you PM him and ask any specific questions you have that way.

I'm just a regular Joe here, so my opinion is nothing more than that, but I tend to support the decision on the basis that we have had two posts from new members in that thread who have not posted here on any topic to do with men in skirts, which is afterall the raison d'etre for this forum. If that thread is drawing folks who have no interest in MIS I'd suggest locking it was probably a good thing. Just my view and I refer you to my signature.

Have fun,


Ian.
Do not argue with idiots; they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce
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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby r.m.anderson » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:24 pm

Comment:

I have to agree with the action of Uncle Al.
I also second the reply by Milfmog.
I believe the "Freestyling" catagory is meant to apply to skirt/kilts/skorts & MUGs.
The posting of pants; trousers; jeans and bifucated wear is the antithesis of this forum.
The only place appropriate for this topic is under "OffTopic" if at all.
Other than that if one wishes to read about the bi-pants wear (male or female) then
the best forum I can think of off hand is the FemaleFirst forum which has this topic/theme
currently under discussion. Link:

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/men- ... 56028.html

If one wants to make comparisons between skirt wearing and pant wearing. OK! I can live
with that but reading about the exclusive wearing of female (Girls) pants just turns me off.
It is not appropriate to this SkirtCafe Forum. Subject matter such as that can be found
and posted at other forum sites.
Thanks to Uncle Al the direction (Mod) of this forum is kept on a steady even keel.
Thank You Uncle Al!

"Kilt-On-Topic"
rm
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby crfriend » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:49 pm

[Mod hat on]

I am going to take a moment here to fully support Uncle Al's decision to lock the "Girl's Jeans" thread, and state my own thoughts on the matter.

First and foremost, as Milfmog pointed up, SkirtCafe's raison d'etre is getting skirted garments -- be they skirts or kilts -- accepted as common fashion choices for men. Trouser-style garments are tangential to that aim, and the overt discussion of women's-styled trousered garments is even more so. Furthermore, the thread in question had historical problems that rankled the moderator and administrative staff before Al joined the crew; comments in that thread from Bob and myself will point that up.

Personally, I really don't care what sorts of trousers you wear, either in public or in private, and I care even less about the sorts of undergarments worn beneath. The latter is not only completely off-topic for SkirtCafe, but is also on the list of subject matter that is officially frowned upon because it tilts into the realm of fetish, and that's something that will not help drive the acceptance of skirted garments on men. Rather, injecting the fetish element will be hurtful to SkirtCafe's goals in common society.

In this case, it was Al who "pulled the trigger" on thread; it could just as easily have been Bob or myself, and if it wasn't for the fact that I was pretty distracted for most of the day, I would have done the deed. Rules about posts exist for a reason here, and those rules are tailored to keep the focus of the community on target. Good moderators do not particularly enjoy stepping on posts, but understand their responsibility to do so when things get out of hand or contravene the purpose of the forum.


[Mod hat off]
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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby RyeOfTheDead » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:10 pm

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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby Bob » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:50 pm

I support the locking decisions. This thread has been a lightening rod for people who seek to break the forum rules. I don't know why, but it has. After 54 posts on the subject, surely everyone has said about what they had to say about it. This was not a trigger-quick locking of a volatile subject, but rather a final locking after extensive discussion and (unfortunately) moderator involvement.
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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby AMM » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:58 pm

I'm not a moderator, but ....

Another way to look at this is that certain topics don't work, not so much because they aren't, in principle, relevant to men-in-skirts, but because they result in the kind of "discussions" that we don't want here.

We don't allow discussion of religion or politics, not because it isn't relevan to men-in-skirts, but because the discussions (almost?) invariably devolve into flame-fests, and this is skirtcafe.org, not flame-fest.org.

We don't allow discussion of underwear, not because it isn't relevant (it most definitely is!), but because such discussions often end up being dominated by people who "get off" on people's reactions to them showing their unmentionables. While there's nothing wrong with people getting off however they choose (within reason), they should do so with consenting adults, and while most of us are adults, we aren't consenting.

I suspect that discussion of men wearing trousers designed for women is going to fall into this category.
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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby RyeOfTheDead » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:01 pm

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The Gender of Jeans Debate and How it Relates to MUGs

Postby RyeOfTheDead » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:32 pm

[Censored]
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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby kilty » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:41 pm

Rye,

You'd do well to look @ http://www.femalefirst.co.uk , it's calmed down a lot since a lot of the trolls were taken out, namely a character called AlfHuckam who plagued the forum :evil: They discuss jeans and other clothing as well. This is a forum for Skirts and Kilts for Men, if you have an interest in Kilts, there's forums like http://www.xmarksthescot.com, though they do not like skirt-wearers, and it's a Kilt-only site. :roll: Also, for more pictures, there's http://www.rokvoormannen.nl, but I can't read Dutch :mrgreen:

Stick around and show us some more of your ensembles, I think they're cool 8)

PS I haven't added these links to cause any trouble, it will just help people see there's other MIS sites out there. The more sites, the more interest in MIS so it should become mainstream sooner or later, I hope :wink:
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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby crfriend » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:49 pm

AMM wrote:We don't allow discussion of underwear, not because it isn't relevant (it most definitely is!), but because such discussions often end up being dominated by people who "get off" on people's reactions to them showing their unmentionables. While there's nothing wrong with people getting off however they choose (within reason), they should do so with consenting adults, and while most of us are adults, we aren't consenting.

Bingo! Consent is the operable notion in this case. Generally speaking, one ought to be able to expect that those around them know how to behave like adults and not foist their fetishes off on the unsuspecting.

RyeOfTheDead wrote:The reason given on the actual locked thread was that it wasn't conducive towards men in skirts/kilts.

Perhaps there's a "failure to communicate" here, even though the moderation staff have bent over backwards to explain their thoughts and intents on the matter. Trousers are tangential to SkirtCafe's mission, and harping on wearing women's trousers -- without discussion of precisely why -- isn't even remotely on-topic.

RyeOfTheDead wrote:I think that closing a thread for *this* reason, sets a really bad precedent, because basically it says, unless your fashion preferences fall in line with how the moderators feel, you can't talk about it.

This is not about how the moderators feel but about the mission of the forum. I sincerely doubt that any of the moderation staff would deny anyone else the right to wear trousers of any ilk for any reason. However, it's just not on topic here.

RyeOfTheDead wrote:When I questioned it on here, people said, "It's about pants! this is a skirts site!" and then directed me to go to a site called "FEMALE first" to talk about men's fashion items if I preferred. Does no one else see how silly this suggestion is?

Well, the topic was about women's (or "girls") jeans. The suggestion makes perfect sense to me.

RyeOfTheDead wrote:To say that the discussion of "women's" vs. "Men's" pants has no place on a forum that promotes male skirt wearing, to me, is ludicrous. [ad-hominem shot deleted] we're talking about the most basic standard contemporary western world garment: the blue jean. It's a daily item for some people, and yet even there, there's subtle but remarkable differences between what is allowed for men and women.

There's an important difference in the discussion of trousers designed for the female shape here and what the forum's mission is -- the inseam. Skirts and kilts, it should be noted, lack them. True, the "blue jean" as worn by many women is quite a different animal than the usual fare for men, but that does not bring it any closer to being on topic here.
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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby RyeOfTheDead » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:00 pm

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Re: The Gender of Jeans Debate and How it Relates to MUGs

Postby kilty » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:10 pm

I wasn't sure why the thread was locked either. maybe because it fell outside the boundaries of skirts or kilts (also it's a bifurcated garment :roll: ). I thought a thread on it could be there as part of 'Fashion Freedom', after all, we want men to have choices, not just a select few :cry:

I personally can't stand women's jeans, I guess I don't really like the fit so much. Though I could see the appeal for some guys who like the fit. I like denim skirts, but this season they're a little too short for me, and I'm not so keen on teaming them with leggings as the current look is :cry: I'm sailing close to the wind saying this, but as you know there are other forums that are prepared to discuss women's jeans, and there are actual women who will give an honest critique of what they think of the look on guys. It's a younger crowd, however there are a few mickey-takers, so beware.

Still when it comes to jeans, nothing can beat men's jeans for me, esp. loose or boot fit!

There was a SkirtCafe member called JeffB1959, he used to post here last year, he had a good sense of style!

Here's one of his topics
viewtopic.php?t=9616

I think he's also on Flickr, his style is quite diverse and refreshing!

Here's a pic, I hope he doesn't mind its duplication (if he is still in residence :roll: )

Image

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Re: Why was Girl's Jeans locked?

Postby AMM » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:18 pm

I can't speak for the moderators, but what stuck in my mind from the thread was:

1. an obsession with the fact that they were "women's" jeans.

2. Several posts talking about how strangers would notice that the jeans were "women's" jeans and turn and stare. (I translate this as "exhibitionism fetish.")

3. Some comments about how "you all are crossdressers, admit it," coupled with a rather combative response to those who didn't agree.

I got the distinct impression that for many of the participants, it was about fetish cross-dressing.

There were posts mentioning that jeans designed for women were more comfortable or fit better than men's jeans, but that line of discussion didn't seem to get any traction.

My own take is that if the discussion had gone more along the lines of "for those occasions when you can't go unbifurcated, here are some trousers that are more comfortable/look better/etc.", and had gone on to discuss the merits of this or that brand or style, it would not have been closed.

In my mind, there's a big difference between, "hey, guys, the gals have got a cool look there, let's steal it for our own" and "hey look everybody, I'm dressed like a girl!."

That thread struck me as being mostly the latter.
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Re: The Gender of Jeans Debate and How it Relates to MUGs

Postby Sarongman » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:17 pm

It may also be the case that the loose fitting mens' jeans are a reaction to the older style, tight fitting, fashion of a couple of decades ago. The fit was, often, excruciatingly uncomfortable--the pockets so tight and short as to be useless and, threatening to amputate at the wrist any hand that tried to extricate any contents. Jeans, or dungarees, are utilitarian garments and should be comfortable. I, for one, welcome the re-emergence of practical jeans for everyday wear. Clothing should be (IMHO) comfortable and practical so, here is where I do see a point in considering women's cut jeans; if they serve the purpose well then they are on the agenda, if they are "on display" then, let's be careful what message we are putting out.
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