Systemic Narrow Mindedness

[Big and Bashful]

These folk use ear defenders with this thing and use it to summon the riders back off the mountain (They have a riding stable).

[AMM]

I'm sure everyone has been enjoying these fantasies of revenge against all who annoy us. (At least, I hope they're just fantasies.) I think they also serve as an illustration of what Walter Wink called the myth of redemptive violence.

But I wonder if this forum is really an appropriate place for them?

Skirtcafe bills itself as a site for "Skirts and Kilts for men" (emphasis mine.) Now, maybe I'm the only one, but I always thought that what distinguished men(TM) from boys (aside from the size of their toys ) was that men took responsibility for the consequences of their actions. And I think (well, I hope, anyway) that most of us are aware that any of the proposed "solutions" (explosives, 130 db sound system, etc.) would only make the situation worse, not to mention landing the practioner in prison, if not in a grave.

Wouldn't the manly -- as opposed to "testosterone poisoned boy" -- thing to do be to discuss ways of dealing with the situation that would actually make this world a better place to live in? Win-win solutions? Increasing the friend/foe ratio rather than decreasing it?

Or is it just that wearing skirts is taking my [insert chest-beating here] masculinity away?

-- AMM

P.S.: One of the main reasons I don't like to visit "X marks the Scot" is that there are so many testosterone-poisoned postings there. A visit there is like watching "Kill Bill III" (not that I've ever watched any of the "Kill Bill" movies, the descriptions were off-putting enough, thank you.)

[Big and Bashful]

AMM,
This part of the Cafe is called Other Stuff. We are indulging in some lighthearted fantasizing which in a Skirt forum is definately 'other stuff'. Maybe you find this sort of discussion distasteful, I feel the same about your post. We are both free to choose another thread, so I will, for now.

[Sasquatch]

Or is it just that wearing skirts is taking my [insert chest-beating here] masculinity away?

You aren't wearing sandals by any chance, are you?
Sasq

[crfriend]

This part of the Cafe is called Other Stuff.

I believe we're all well aware of that. In fact, I tossed one out the other evening, hoping for a response, and have gotten zilch. Well, it was "off topic" *and* esoteric as all get-out anyway, so that's not terribly surprising.

We are indulging in some lighthearted fantasizing which in a Skirt forum is definately 'other stuff'. Maybe you find this sort of discussion distasteful, I feel the same about your post.

I feel the need to second AMM's comments here. Whilst I'd love to get a really loud horn on my car (a train-whistle would do nicely) to blow at miscreants on the highway, it'd ultimately be meaningless -- those who we'd hope to "take revenge upon" are blissfully unaware of their shortcomings and would not benefit from the "education" that revenge would bring (us). Which, of course, brings me to the next step -- why should we even remotely advocate, if even in jest (all too many people have precisely no sense of humour these days), vengeful acts?

For crying out loud -- we're a miniscule minority, we men who wear skirts in western society -- why should we behave (or be perceived as behaving) like drunken louts on a binge? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a good laugh as much as the next guy (Grenades, anybody?) but cannot countenance physical violence except as a last-ditch effort.

[iain]

Two nights ago the University students in my street created their usual "monday night drinking celebrations" which went from 2:30 a.m. to 04:00. I lost a night's sleep. First I called the police out, who had a talk with them.

Next day I found who owned their rented house and told him there was a petition to get them out. I rang the council and registered a complaint; they also sent someone around to have a talk with them.

Lastly, I rang the University and complained that these students were making life miserable for residents. I described them as mindless cretins (before you go all PC on me, please note that they play football against their walls, indoors, and ignore their neighbour's request to stop. A spade is a spade--let's describe it as such).

The University promised to write to them, and threaten them with being summoned before the Dean or whoever is in charge of that place, should another incident occur.

Some people should not live near others, and we shouldn't have to put up with them. My next step will be to superglue their front door locks!

[Milfmog]

My next step will be to superglue their front door locks!

Whilst that may make you feel good for a moment it will mean that you have surrendered the moral high ground. Before going there, would you not be better off going back to plod and the local council and seeking an ASBO*? I'm not sure that I would not take your proposed course of action, just asking you to think before doing so.

The environmental health department at the local council are often a good source of leverage against landlords whose tenants misbehave. Councils tend to be fairly responsive to written complaints signed by a number of local residents so collecting the agreement of other residents who suffer from the students unacceptable behaviour can significantly add to your voice.

Good luck,


Ian.

* For the benefit of non UK residents an ASBO is an "Anti-Social Behaviour Order", a sort of low level civil offence which is recognised by placing restrictions on the offender which, if breached, can lead to further legal action.

[AMM]

AMM,
.... We are indulging in some lighthearted fantasizing which in a Skirt forum is definately 'other stuff'.

Whether this fantasizing is "lighthearted" is a matter of perspective.

To me, this sort of fantasizing is the tip of an iceberg of a whole mentality of violence as a way of asserting masculinity.

We live in a world where it is widely accepted that, for men, violence is an appropriate and often the only appropriate response to things we don't like. And furthermore, a world where violence is a proof, for many the only real proof, of masculinity. Men and boys are dying every day not 20 miles from where I live because they and their fellow males see no other way to handle conflicts or real or perceived threats to their masculinity but to go out and kill someone. The same ideas are pervasive throughout my country, if usually in a less lethal form, and I would say throughout the Western world (for those in Scotland, cf. Rob Roy.)

There's some relevance to skirt-wearing here, too.

The original post included someone calling the poster a "skirt wearing Faggot." Men who are insecure in their masculinity are on the one hand more likely to see a man wearing a skirt as a threat to their own masculinity and on the other hand more likely to respond to such a "threat" with violence (as the most reliable way to reassert their own masculinity.) In this case, fortunately, the violence remained verbal, but the threat was there.

I wonder how much of the macho posturing and talk of violent response at "X marks the Scot" is a way for posters to deal with fears that wearing a "skirt" reveals some secret lack of masculinity. (I'll leave it to others here to say whether anything like that goes on at Skirt Cafe.)

For our own safety, we need to be aware of the masculinity-violence link in other people's (men's) minds, especially since our skirt-wearing, and even kilt-wearing, will be seen as a challenge to conventional standards of masculinity.

And for our own sanity, I think we need to be aware of this link in our own minds.

-- AMM

[iain]

I know for sure nobody will act on the sound system-amplifier solutions.. I think imagining these antisocial cretins suffering is a good tonic for the distress they cause.

I saw a show last night where some neighbours had fallen out over barking dogs in an adjoining garden. When the owners were asked, "why don't you keep them INdoors at night?" They retorted, "They are outdoor dogs. Our house is not a kennel."

The judge got so angry at them, and awarded $3500 to the plaintiff for distress and suffering for 2.5 years of ruined sleep. Some people are, let's face it, mindless, thoughtless animals. It's the way they are. We might like to pretend to be above irritation and anger but to feel these things is a normal reaction when life is disrupted by someone else's thoughtlessness. It's normal! To pretend otherwise is nice if we live in la-la land, but it's not very useful to live in a fantasy and strike a saintly pose, when in reality we're seething with rage.

PC or not PC, some imaginary violence against them feels very good, and is much less hassle than the real thing..

[AMM]

... I think imagining these antisocial cretins suffering is a good tonic for the distress they cause...

There are pretty much two popular theories as to the effects of "imaginary violence", usually in relation to TV shows, but also in relation to violent thoughts and fantasies:

1. "Imaginary violence" lets off steam, and thus reduces the likelihood of real violence.

2. "Imaginary violence" gets people desensitised to violence, and thus increases the likelihood of real violence.

Experimental evidence (to the extent that proponents of one or the other theory bother with evidence) is inconsistent: some experiments seem to support one theory, some support the other, and many are inconclusive.

The bottom line is, nobody really knows, but an awful lot of people are certain they do.

-- AMM

P.S.: I think my contribution definitely qualifies as "other stuff"

[Skirt Chaser]

Revenge isn't purely a masculine realm, I have to admit a to titter at Skip's weather idea. In fact an unattended sprinkler reaching well into their lawn when the problem occcurs again is along the same lines. In reality however that doesn't help anything (particularly when water and electricity are involved!). Neither would joyfully noisy sex sounds coming from your pool area but the ideas are fun to imagine. :rolleyes:

Has the neighbor problem gotten any better in the meantime, Greg?

Quiet Mouse