Trouble at the moment.

Non-fashion, non-skirt, non-gender discussions. If your post is related to fashion, skirts or gender, please choose one of the forums above for it.
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Ingemar
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Trouble at the moment.

Post by Ingemar »

Hi!

As several of you already know I said I was going to convert to the Catholic church and I did!
Now some problems have appeared after entering: Somebody had told the Vicar that I had bee seen in the city in Nappa clothing and found it disturbing, then let it aside if someone had seen me in skirts. I personally found nothing disturbing in nappa clothing just an elegant material to make clothes from.

If somebody who is a Catholic have some points that I could use when talking to our new vicar after the change 1/6 about how I think about things and if until the possible step into either Priesthood or something I could go on as I wish as to me it is what you believe that counts.

Greetings

Ingemar
binx
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Who tattled?

Post by binx »

Ask who is complaining. Have a meeting with them and the Vicar. Never heard anyone getting ex-communicated for wearing leather or skirts, particularly "on your own time". Now a Nappa skirt....woah! Thin ice, indeed! You usually wear kilts, right? I get asked when I don't wear one to services.

binx
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Post by Big and Bashful »

Nappa? what's so contravertial about that? Why is it different from other leather?
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cessna152towser
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Post by cessna152towser »

Yes, wonder what's their problem? I wear a kilt when I attend church and nobody's ever complained.
Please view my photos of kilts and skirts, old trains, vintage buses and classic aircraft on http://www.flickr.com/photos/cessna152towser/
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Post by Bob »

So far, this thread is going OK.

As Ingemar requested, I would like to limit responses on this thread to people who are Catholic, or who are regular members of some other Christian church. Although criticism of one's own church is always healthy, there is no room in this thread for negative or dispariging views of a church or religion by people not involved in that religion.

Please respect these guidelines. Otherwise, I will unfortunately have to close the thread. But I think it would be better for us as a community if we could help out Ingemar and his situation.
binx
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Hmmm

Post by binx »

If you're thinking of entering the priesthood, you'll have to renounce such things IMO. They could be considered as vanity.:naughty: It's all about selflessness and humility.

binx
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AMM
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Post by AMM »

Ingemar wrote: ...
Now some problems have appeared after entering [the Catholic church]: Somebody had told the Vicar that I had bee seen in the city in Nappa clothing and found it disturbing, then let it aside if someone had seen me in skirts. ...

If somebody who is a Catholic have some points that I could use when talking to our new vicar after the change 1/6 ...
I'm pretty confused about exactly what is going on. I think we may be having some language difficulties here.

1. I assume you mean the Roman Catholic church. The only reason I'm not sure is that I've mostly heard the word "Vicar" used for priests in the Church of England. Also, the Episcopal Church (USA version of the Church of England) says it's part of the "Holy Catholic Church."

2. What kind of material is "Nappa", and why would anyone care if you wear clothes made out of "Nappa"? For example, is it a kind of cloth that has obscene or anti-Catholic slogans woven into it or something?

3. Has the Vicar (= Priest ?) indicated that he saw anything wrong in what you were wearing? All you have said is that someone complained to him. In every religious group, there are people who have nothing better to do than to complain to the priest/pastor/etc. about the supposed sins of other people, and priests get used to dealing with them. Do you have any reason to believe that this isn't what's going on?

Actually, my impression was that the Roman Catholic church was rather liberal ("catholic") about what their members wore. I used to live across the street from a (Roman) Catholic church, and was astonished to see people coming to church in jeans, T-shirts, shorts, etc. When I was growing up, I got the feeling from my church (not Roman Catholic!) that God didn't want to see you in His House if your shoes weren't shined or your necktie wasn't tied right.
Ingemar wrote: until the possible step into either Priesthood or something
4. Are you saying you are planning to become a priest? If you were, I would think you and your Vicar would have bigger things to discuss than your clothing.

-- AMM
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Post by Sasquatch »

In my own Protestant denomination we use the Apostle's Creed as a statement of our belief - in it we profess to believe in the Holy catholic Church - little 'c' catholic meaning universal.

Ingemar, I have forgotten the details of your conversion. If you care to refresh us, I am interested in your story. I hope this is not straying too far from our 'prime mission' at this site, but a lot of the controversy over modes of dress does go to religious belief and our concepts of Biblical mandates. that makes it relevant, although I am aware that we need to tread lightly with a sensitive subject.

Personally, I believe God knows my heart. I hope Ingemar's Vicar or Priest will see it that way, too.

Sasq
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Post by CharlesG »

Ingemar, Did our Lord Jesus Christ where anything other than an unbifurcated garment? Do not the priests wear robes? They certainly didn't wear trousers under those robes when the church was formed.
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Charlie
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Post by kingfish »

When I did the "engaged encounter" weekend with my wife before marrying her, the priest held an educational mass. While putting on the white gown that was the base layer of his vestment(s). He identified it as an alb. He said that though it was one of the garments he wore as the priest, it wasn't specific to the clergy and was something everyone had a right to wear.
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Post by PatJ »

Actually,

the alb is the baptismal garment to be worn by all who are baptized.

PatJ
mk3
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Post by mk3 »

i was in a catholic and christian church and the people seemed open minded to a point. but they became closed after the topic (intentionally on my part) strayed to something a slight amount more subcultured.

i wouldn't worry too much about what the people at the church think unless they're friends or are important to you. they have set minds from listening to the clergy's idea of what's right and wrong, and other church stereotypes. i remember one guy in the church who was aiming at becoming very big in the small church - was in the military and was raising his kids (boys) to be 'men'. really what he was doing was raising them very conservatively and showing them that they could do little in the ways of emotion and caring for someone, creating living statues.

that's more or less the way the modern church wants people to turn out, on the side, the kids who're in the church now and don't believe so much of that are making the church change in order to not ostrocise more potential members. but the church is becoming more and more liberal to attract people and not close its doors permanently from lack of attendance. as someone who went to church a few times, and has a liberal and very critical perspective of it; you're not there to impress others, but rather only god, and god is impressed if you're making yourself happy and following his basic rules given some slack about the era in which you live.
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Post by The Satirist »

My disbelief not withstanding and irrelevant to this subject, I would say that in an organization such as the church, any dress code should be clear and provable by scripture. If they expect you to follow the laws of the church, they need to be able to show you those laws in writing. I wouldn't accept any vagueness.

That's just my take on it.
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RichardN
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Post by RichardN »

If someone at you church is complaining about clothes made of leather (whether nappa or whatever), you could politely suggest to your vicar/priest that he refers them to Genesis 3 verse 21.

The very very first clothes were tunics (dresses) or skirts made of animal skins!! And it was God who provided those clothes! -- so I would say the people who are complaining haven't a leg to stand on.

Leather and unbifurcated clothing are both totally Scriptural.

Their only valid Scriptural argument may be against people who use clothing to pass as the opposite gender. But that's a totally different topic.

Be patient and explain skirting as many times as it takes.

Richard N
John P.
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Post by John P. »

I know it's been a while since you posted, but two things (I'm assuming Roman Catholic):

1) Leather is not forbidden (not sure if that is what you meant by "Napa")

2) This article about Women's modesty is interesting, as it speaks to both ends of the spectrum:

Deuteronomy 22:5 and Women's Trousers

The article focuses on women wearing pants, but later on posits the opposite - men adopting "female" garb. I don't know how close to the teaching of the Church this article is, but it is an interesting compendium of articles and history.

You may want to pay special attention to the section that reads:

"Rome even addressed the issue of trouser-donning women in the 9th century when the Bulgars were trying to decide whether they would align themselves with Rome or with the Byzantines."

and the quote by Pope Saint Nicholas I below that sentence. without reading his address in context, I cannot fully say what he says supports skirts for men, but I feel it brings to question many fears some Catholics feel about men in skirts.
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