Spam etc

[OldNick]

I admit I haven't checked out the latest post about 'sucking cock' so perhaps it's all perfectly innocent - but why are we getting crap like this on the site?

I haven't posted much over the years (last time I tried I managed to delete my own post!) but it seems to me that we're getting more junk postings since Tomscafe closed and skirtcafe opened.

What do others think?

I think it'd be great to get back to roots which, as far as I'm concerned is the freedom to wear what you want/feel comfortable in - not 'turned on by'. If people want porn etc there are plenty of sites to cater for them.

Is there some way this can be 'censored'?

BTW does anyone know how to stop viagra and stock recommendation spam?

[Jock]

Havers, Old Tom must be turning in his grave! It seems to me that the ol' cafe is turning into a seedy bar. Unless this place cleans up its act I'm going tae find a more upmarket place where I can wear a skirt and not a dirty raincoat.

What's this site really aboot? the clue is in the URL!!

[AndrewH]

I think we are at that point in the cycle where the spammers are on top. Soon blockers will improve, then we will see a reduction of spam for a bit, until the spammers beat the blockers again.

Also, I think more spam is being hand generated, again making it easier to beat the blockers.

Everyone is suffering - please don't blame this site or its moderators. The spam is getting through the firewalls at work as well.

[iain]

sure, nobody blames the organisers for the random appearance of this stuff. but how is it a thread can be closed by a moderator while britney's nocturnal arrangements continue to sit proudly at the head of a column of threads? is it some politically correct rule that even I haven't come across yet?

I also don't want to be part of a site where this stuff just sits around like mud on a wall for days.

as for the SUV conversation, I haven't ever enjoyed a debate as much! I don't mind being insulted or anything, probably I deserve it. but at least I'm free to say outspoken things if I feel like it--if we must censor outspoken people who are genuine members, can we please at least get the britney-type stuff off before we do it?

[talon2mech]

I am concerned about the amount of spam piling up here. It not only clogs up forum space it makes us look like we (as a forum) allow spam postings. The Brittney post makes us look a bit sleazy to any browsers.

I have an easy solution if the forum software is capable.

When someone registers on this forum, make them wait at least 3 days to post/reply anywhere in this theater.

Since the spammers are in the volume business, I doubt that they will be back to post once the cooling period is over. If they do post spam delete their profile and all of their threads.

I know that in the interest of fairness Bob may not want to delete profiles or be the ultimate judge. I propose a due process amendment to the rules.

We could vote by replying to each suspected spam post. When any 12 (standard jury) members vote to delete; Bob will lock the thread and send the originator an email allowing that person to rebut the charge and action. If within 3 days the individual does not respond, then Bob (the judge/Server boss) carries out the will of the jury. If the individual responds then Bob will place the response within that same thread for a ruling by any 12 members again. If the post/originator is found to be spam/spammer then Bob will delete the originators account.

This would prevent arbitrary account deleting and would protect current/law abiding members.

I volunteer to act as Attorney general on this matter.

[Big and Bashful]

Got to admit that thread was getting a bit personal but I was enjoying it as well. But I must agree with Iain, locking that thread and leaving spammed smut on the site is bad.
As far as I know the only practical way to prevent spam would be to to what the yahoo forums do and vet new members to try and make sure they are genuine before approving membership and allowing them to post.
I know Bob might not have enough time to do all that is necessary but help has been offered.

[Departed Member]

I endorse everything the others have said! As for our interesting little debate, it's no worse than any you'd have down the local pub, probably any night of the week. We've all been able to see (and understand) where each other is 'coming from', literally as it happens! It's good to see (everyday) things from another's perpective. It's not good to have the spam peddler's filth left for others to judge us all (incorrectly!) by.

[iain]

right!! I agree with a cooling off period of new members before they can post.. who'd want to wait? I'm not sure we need a bipartisan committee of ten fair men and true, with presiding attorney general and potential waiving of veto for communist china, korea of montenegro. Let's be judge, judy and executioner.

I'd say just do it!

[Brandy]

On other boards I'm on newbies are not allowed to post links or pictures until they have had 5 or more regular posts. When initally registering there is the funny mirrored wiggly passcode you have to enter and use a real email address for the activation code.

Pretty well takes care of the automatic spammers. Seems as though some or all of those steps could be used here. As for leaving spam up for extended periods of time like the "brittany" thread that seems like a management issue.

Yes once a username is id'ed as a spammer it should be deleted. Pretty easy to, less than 10 posts and threads with porno links and pictures.

-- Brandy

[crfriend]

G'day, lads.

From the looks of things, we're actually all in agreement for once that something needs to be done about the "new" problem with the spam that's polluting our little slice of turf. Some folks have made good suggestions (talon2mech, Iain, & others), some of which will actually work.

I like the notion of human moderation for the "probationary period" before a new "citizen" has had a chance to show his (or her, or its) true colours; humans are very good at recognising junk -- something that computers aren't (I know this; I'm the e-postmaster at my present place of employment, so I've got quite the grasp of how spam works). It needn't be terribly time-consuming, but will demand a moderator's time, and that moderator must be vigilant in not letting personal views interfere with how he adjudicates the fate of a message or "probationary citizen" -- the thrust is to block the junk, surely not stifle debate (even if the debate does get a tad "heated")!

Talon2mech's proposal is a bit unwieldy in that it would take time for the "jury" to come to consensus on any given message (we all have lives separate from here, I assume). We need a way to blow posts away "with extreme prejudice", and I suspect that all here would agree that smut- and drug- spam fall into that category; one glance spells the fate for the "Britney bit" for instance -- into the bit-bucket!

I don't know what moderation facilities are in place here, other than Bob himself as "Server Boss" and what I derisively term the "nanny-filter" that splats ("*") certain words, but I'm willing to step to the fore and donate some of my time to try to keep the cr*p down to a dull roar. One thing that we might try is adding a button next to each post that "alerts an administrator" and temporarily removes the post from view -- this can be abused, but if it is, the abuser can get himself tossed out (and guests don't get the option to report a post).

Brandy mentions the use of the "funny mirrored wiggly passcode"; this is what's known as a "captcha". They don't work very well in the real world because (1) there are programs in existence to thwart them (image in, text out) and (2) they wreak havoc with certain users' needs (like blind folks who use speech-synthesizers). Brandy's assertion that the offending message's lingering stay is harmful is right on the money -- Bob, please blow the post from the forum; you can save some of the pithy commentary following it if you wish, but the original one needs to go (as do the drugs spams as well).

As far as Old Nick's query about identifying spam featuring stock tips and weenie-stiffening drugs, there's nothing like Bayesian filters for grabbing that sort of nonsense. I use "bogofilter" here at home (a Bayesian filter) and I make extensive use of SpamAssassin both at work and at home. "Google" (is that really a verb?) for them -- they're both free, but need some setup smarts to get running well.

[Bob]

Hi guys,

I'm very sorry about the spam. It has actually been a problem at the Cafe for a long time. When I inherited the board from Noodles, it was the kind of once-a-week problem, and he told me about it. Now, it's coming fast and furious. That's "progress" for you, unfortunately. More spam every month.

The spam deluge has nothing to do with our subject matter. It is a random process that hits any vBulletin boards it can find. Every board out there is getting spammed worse and worse.

The problem is, the spam comes faster than I can clean it out. When I closed the non-spam thread yesterday, I also deleted a number of spams that had been sitting around for an ungainly period of time (during which I was not able to log onto the Cafe). Now, the next time I looked just one day later, there are already three more spam threads!!! No human being can keep up with this. I am aware that at a certain level, it will start to erode our community, and I am very concerned about that.

Another problem is that vBulletin makes this spam-killing task cumbersome; it was not designed for the Age of SPAM. I have to log into administrator. Then I have to delete the spammer's account. Account deletion is not easy; the easiest way I've found is to "merge" the account into a dummy account I've set up, which effectively deletes it. Then I have to log back in as myself and delete the actual spam thread. There's no easy 1-step "delete this spam thread and its author too" command. So yes, deleting spam is a time consuming and thankless job.

I certainly don't have time to tell spammers why I'm deleting their account, or to explain on each thread why I deleted the thread, or to save any legitimate members' posts that came after an initial spam post. If the thread is spam, the whole thing goes.

It's actually quite easy to tell who is a spammer and who is legit. I haven't had even one complaint from someone whose account was deleted. But the problem remains, they sign up and post faster than I can delete them.

vBulletin does use "captchas", those wavy-character things that are supposed to be hard for machines to read. Problem is, they're actually quite easy for machines to read. Also, the real desperate spammer can just hire a bunch of people overseas at pennies per hour to decipher captchas. In other words, they barely work any more.

So, the change I've made in response to this... new users are now subject to human approval. The days of instant registration at SkirtCafe are unfortunately over. I'm sorry it had to come to this. Believe it or not, I will quite often be able to tell who is a real user to be approved, and who is a spammer, just from their username. We'll see how this works out.

By popular demand, I have re-opened the thread on SUVs. I suppose if it hasn't turned into a flame war after 50 posts, it probably won't. I am thankful that things have remained relatively peaceful at the Cafe recently, even with heated legit arguments.

[talon2mech]

So, the change I've made in response to this... new users are now subject to human approval. The days of instant registration at SkirtCafe are unfortunately over. I'm sorry it had to come to this. Believe it or not, I will quite often be able to tell who is a real user to be approved, and who is a spammer, just from their username. We'll see how this works out.

That should make a difference. If the spammer has to pause they will not post spam.

I wish that spam destruction could be a shared task as I am sorry it is very time consuming for you.

Thanks for looking into this!

[crfriend]

I'm very sorry about the spam. It has actually been a problem at the Cafe for a long time. When I inherited the board from Noodles, it was the kind of once-a-week problem, and he told me about it. Now, it's coming fast and furious. That's "progress" for you, unfortunately. More spam every month.

There's certainly no need for you to apologise for the problem -- you didn't create it! Further, no-one can fault you for having a life of your own outside the sphere of being a server boss.

Another problem is that vBulletin makes this spam-killing task cumbersome; it was not designed for the Age of SPAM.

If I recall correctly, vBulletin relies on a backing database of some sort; that might be the starting point rather than using the web interface (which, for the most part, are difficult to use for administration tasks). Is there an on-line copy of the administrators guide to vBulletin that contains the schema for the database? I'm thinking that there'll probably be two or three SQL statements that'd take care of the task more easily than the GUI. PM me on the matter if you're interested; SQL is not black magic, but it can be un-nerving to the newbie.

I certainly don't have time to tell spammers why I'm deleting their account [...]

Nor should you. I view spamming in fora such as SkirtCafe as being akin to breaking and entering -- as a crime. These criminals don't deserve to know why their accounts have been deleted; their ISP's however, should get notified, and I hope there's a trail of IP addresses to use as evidence (OK, I know, it's a waste of time because ISPs make money from spam, but, on occasion, tracking and reporting these idiots can make a body feel good).

vBulletin does use "captchas", those wavy-character things that are supposed to be hard for machines to read. [...] In other words, they barely work any more.

There's progress for you!

[...]new users are now subject to human approval. The days of instant registration at SkirtCafe are unfortunately over. I'm sorry it had to come to this.

Thanks. And again, there's no need to apologise for it -- it was a change that had to happen, and all reasonable adults will understand it. Not requiring administrator approval is a bit like leaving your front door unlocked. Does anybody here do that (if living in a rough neighbourhood)?

[Departed Member]

Many thanks, Bob! Your efforts are much appreciated!

[Big and Bashful]

Bob,
Thanks for doing all you have done, it can't be faulted. I think you have done the right thing with the membership approval loop and it's good to see the right decisions taken.
I'm even more chuffed about the SUV banter being allowed to continue, I was trying not to go too far and some people would say I am very trying! I just hope that the MUG related threads get stirred up again, over the last few weeks I kick started a few but it all went quiet again.
Is it the time of year? Too wet and windy to be out and about with loose clothing wafting in the breeze?
Oh dear, I've used a smiley, it must be the beer. Can't have that can I? :shake:
Oops, there goes another, must stop now before I get carried away!