A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

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A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby Uncle Al » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 pm

This is a warning to ALL Cafe' Members......

Mod Hat - - ON

The Cafe' is getting quite warm due the much discussed political threads.
The Cafe's A/C can't handle this much heat.

Any further posts about Politics - OF ANY KIND - will be grounds for
placement on MODERATED STATUS. Your input for skirt/kilt wearing
is much appreciated. BUT - - KEEP POLITICS OUT OF YOUR POSTS :!:

Mod Hat - - Off

Uncle Al

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2018-2020(and the beat goes on ;) )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby JennC03 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:19 pm

Uncle Al no worries from me. Skirt On!
¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆Have a wonderful day! ☆•*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* * It's good to look at those we love with fresh eyes whenever we can to remind us how lucky we are to have their light in our lives.
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby Freedomforall » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:08 am

I try not to mix politics with pleasure!
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby denimini » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:14 am

I will make a mental note of that. It is predictable that a forum based on nonconforming behaviour will get caught up in politics at times.
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby Jim » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:26 am

denimini wrote:I will make a mental note of that. It is predictable that a forum based on nonconforming behaviour will get caught up in politics at times.

And may have trouble conforming with rules, too!
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby Stevie D » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:22 am

Jim wrote:
denimini wrote:..It is predictable that a forum based on nonconforming behaviour will get caught up in politics at times.

And may have trouble conforming with rules, too!


I agree with both these opinions.
Men wearing skirts in western society will inevitably at some stage come into contact with those who have differing views on, political or religious grounds or sheer bloody-mindedness.

Given the rise of extreme right-wing political leadership on both sides of the mid-Atlantic Ridge, I think we can expect trouble up ahead. I hope not, but I do fear the worst for men wearing skirts, gender-nonconforming people and LGBT people in general. It seems already worse than even just a couple of years ago. These are not good times and we may need the freedom to be able to discuss these important issues on this forum without facing censorship of the sort that Uncle Al is hinting at. So long as discussion is done with courtesy, decorum and respect for others, I hope there will not be a problem.
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby crfriend » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:14 pm

Stevie D wrote:So long as discussion is done with courtesy, decorum and respect for others, I hope there will not be a problem.

This is precisely where the matter hinges. Many, if not most, folks can keep their passions under control and behave themselves in public; unfortunately, some cannot and insist on pouring fuel into what's already a flammable mixture. It's the latter minority who inevitably ruin it for everyone.

Note that in the foregoing brouhaha it was only two individuals who got out of control, but the moderators -- as a group, this wasn't just Al -- felt that the whole thing could have spiralled out of control and finally stepped on it. Most everybody else kept things on a fairly even keel.

All of us have opinions, some well-formed and some formed solely by what's on the telly or in the echo chamber. Some opinions are popular and some are not (I hold several of the latter and express them from time to time -- and receive flak for it); however, an opinion expressed, and backed up with reason, deserves some level of respect even if one disagrees with it. People deserve some level of respect unless personal behaviour indicates that simply isn't possible.

It's ultimately not about politics (or religion, to bring up the other hot button issue), it's about how folks control their passions regarding these things -- and some just cannot.
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby dillon » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:38 pm

I honestly and happily concede that I am perhaps one of the more acerbic posters in this forum, at least when it comes to current events. In most other ways I try to be cheerful and supportive with my brethren. For example, if someone posted a pic in which he looked ridiculous, IMO, I would not say so. I would simply pass by the post. But politics should not be personal in the same way. It’s not that I set out to offend, but I will stand by the idea that words worth speaking inevitably abrade thin skin. I believe, however, that I have consistently reserved my “poking with a sharp stick” for those things that are broadly sociopolitical; things that no man needs hold in his psyhe or soul as something definitive of his deeper character - unless he has chosen to so define himself.

Political belief is neither inherent or terminal; the condition can be managed with few complications, even if the pox of one’s affliction is alarming. :shock: In fact, a bit of rational/moral/ethical challenge on a daily basis might be healthy exercise for us old-timers, mentally, like trying to touch our toes in the morning. :doh: It is, most assuredly, a very healthy exercise for our society. :!:

And, as Stevie D. noted, these are effectively nouveaux-Orwellian times, and we clearly dwell in a “target-rich environment” for sociopolitical criticism of all stripes. It should not be taken as personal unless directed as such. At that juncture, I feel that we should offer apology or explanation, to remain verbally civil.

What troubles me most about this ongoing “mod-fest” is that, despite the advanced age of our most active membership, there still exists some sense that members need protection from opinions, no matter how impersonal, or how restrained their presentation, that challenge sociopolitical belief. I’d hope that by this point in life, no one here is too sensitive or fragile to be confronted with a differing POV; that they can discern between a criticism of their choices and a criticism of themselves as individual men. I believe we are entitled to a civil presentation of opinion. I don't believe we're entitled to a guarantee that no one will post something with we strongly disagree. In that regard, the degree of moderation threatened is, I believe, suspicious overkill.

Too, I’d hope, and expect, that by his sixties and seventies, a man’s views are fully “gelled” and that he can articulate a reasoned defense of those views. I’d suggest that if a man cannot expound upon a position about which he feels strongly, he might sit down and consider that position a bit longer. Obviously, in that regard, I have been disappointed. The sum of “defense” to my “sharp pointed stick” has been, figuratively, “That’s my candidate you’re poking. So, SHUT UP! SHUT UP! Or the mods will shut you up!” How old do we need to be before we stop needing the protection of censors and start speaking for our own beliefs?

Regardless, censorship apparently prevails. Congratulations; the Moderation Wall got funded. Having now been thusly admonished to silence, I shall return to squatting like a plaster gnome in the flower-beds of banality to which most of these fora are invariably redirected, lest they be closed to opining.

Your faithful correspondent,
Dillon :silenced:
aka ‘Harrison Smith.’
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby crfriend » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:15 pm

dillon wrote:Political belief is neither inherent or terminal; the condition can be managed with few complications, even if the pox of one’s affliction is alarming. :shock: In fact, a bit of rational/moral/ethical challenge on a daily basis might be healthy exercise for us old-timers, mentally, like trying to touch our toes in the morning. :doh: It is, most assuredly, a very healthy exercise for our society. :!:

In a prefect world. However, there's also that troubling word right up in the front of the statement, "belief", that forms the root of the problem. Too many approach matters on the level of belief instead of rational analysis. This leads to rancour and fights.

If an opinion or a matter of public policy vexes one, then debate it -- openly, publicly, and civilly. How often do we actually see all three of those at the same time? Usually it's the last that disappears first.
And, as Stevie D. noted, these are effectively nouveaux-Orwellian times, and we clearly dwell in a “target-rich environment” for sociopolitical criticism of all stripes. It should not be taken as personal unless directed as such. At that juncture, I feel that we should offer apology or explanation, to remain verbally civil.

I'd say that the word "effectively" could be profitably stricken from the above. It's certainly a "target-rich environment" for satirists -- save that satire in that realm is effectively dead as the environment serves as its own satire due to the absurdity of it.

And, yes -- please -- let's be civil. Let's not pour naphtha (not NAFTA) on something so heated that it's guaranteed to set everything ablaze. I'd prefer that this place not start resembling the Coconut Grove.
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby dillon » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:04 pm

crfriend wrote:And, yes -- please -- let's be civil. Let's not pour naphtha (not NAFTA) on something so heated that it's guaranteed to set everything ablaze. I'd prefer that this place not start resembling the Coconut Grove.


Just remember...we will win this war because Charlie don't surf.
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby FranTastic444 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:01 pm

Understandable, but a shame nevertheless. Being a mod is a thankless task and I can totally get why unpaid volunteers would want to remove an accelerant that could lead to a firestorm of squabbling and poor forum etiquette.

My personal opinion is that a forum is at its best when a good chunk of the content is away from the core topic. A forum is a great way of bringing together people with a single common interest who may otherwise have little / no connection - different parts of the world, age range, sex, political, religious and social views, income level, life experiences (education level, work experience, other interests, being part of / affected by significant events such as war, terror attacks, medical challenges such as cancer, Parkinsons), etc. etc. Discussing a variety of topics with people with such backgrounds is a great opportunity to get views that you might otherwise not be exposed to. The trick, as alluded to elsewhere in this thread, is to create a space for such widely differing experiences and opinions without it turning into a huge bun fight.

I opened the Brexit thread because of the fact that someone (I think it was Moon) had specifically asked about the topic, plus my experience of having lots of people out in the real world wanting to speak to me about it. It was never really meant to be an opportunity for Brit members to debate the merits or otherwise of the event. I was, somewhat naively as it turns out, trying to give non-Brits a flavour of the subject matter that they probably wouldn't be able to get from another source. Slightly saddened that in all my years of forum membership this is the first time that I've had a thread locked. What's worse - there were a couple of things I meant to reply to on that thread (to Skirtyscot to clarify my position on exit without a deal, plus the Peterborough result) :-)

Anyhooos, message received and understood - politics and religion are now off-topic posts from me for this forum.
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby crfriend » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:32 pm

FranTastic444 wrote:I opened the Brexit thread because of the fact that someone (I think it was Moon) had specifically asked about the topic, plus my experience of having lots of people out in the real world wanting to speak to me about it.

I, personally, was following the "Brexit" thread with interest as I have resonances with the "Old World" (being the "Old Fart" that I am). As far as I know, there was a single post to it -- from the western side of the pond -- that got it locked (and which post was "disappeared" in best Argentine form). Other than that, the thread itself was quite restrained compared to the sort of shenanigans that unfortunately go on in the "New World".

Please don't take the matter personally.
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby dillon » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:12 am

crfriend wrote:
FranTastic444 wrote:I opened the Brexit thread because of the fact that someone (I think it was Moon) had specifically asked about the topic, plus my experience of having lots of people out in the real world wanting to speak to me about it.

I, personally, was following the "Brexit" thread with interest as I have resonances with the "Old World" (being the "Old Fart" that I am). As far as I know, there was a single post to it -- from the western side of the pond -- that got it locked (and which post was "disappeared" in best Argentine form). Other than that, the thread itself was quite restrained compared to the sort of shenanigans that unfortunately go on in the "New World".

Please don't take the matter personally.

It was my post that clearly twisted someone’s knickers. A thread dealing with the U.K. was the last available venue to share a clever - actually hilarious is a more appropriate term - photo of British political expression. I only shared a photo; I didn’t compose it, though I wish I had been that British-clever. I don’t know why deleting my post without explanation was apparently not an adequately satisfying retaliation for a moderator. It made no sense to lock the thread. Wagging a figurative finger at me should have been adequate...unless there was some fear of my spreading the virus of ‘resistance.’

I am sorry, my British brothers, that your respectable thread became the victim of US politics. I am not the one who closed it, although I am sure to bear the blame. I can do no more than continue to ask “How old must men grow before they no longer require the protection of moderators?”
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby skirtyscot » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:18 am

Uncle Al wrote:This is a warning to ALL Cafe' Members......

Mod Hat - - ON

The Cafe' is getting quite warm due the much discussed political threads.
The Cafe's A/C can't handle this much heat.

Any further posts about Politics - OF ANY KIND - will be grounds for
placement on MODERATED STATUS. Your input for skirt/kilt wearing
is much appreciated. BUT - - KEEP POLITICS OUT OF YOUR POSTS :!:

Mod Hat - - Off

Uncle Al

:mrgreen: :ugeek: :mrgreen:


I really can't see what the problem is with the Brexit thread. In my opinion, locking it was utterly unwarranted and you should unlock it again.

Yes, it was full of disagreement, but what's wrong with that? The protagonists set out their views clearly and coherently. None of it was personal; nobody seems to have been offended.

I'm curious about exactly what made you think that locking the thread was a good idea. There seems to have been some worry that it would spill over into a flame war, but that was unjustified. My last post was (I hope) clearly tongue in cheek, and personally speaking I could read Dennis's objections on the grounds of political overreach (which BTW I agree with) and metrication (bizarrely trivial) all day without resorting to ad hominem.

I bet I'm not the only one who is pissed off about this. You have denied the Brexiteers the right of reply to my points, and I'm sure they were going to come up with something convincing this side of Christmas. ;-)
Keep on skirting,

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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Postby oldsalt1 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:29 am

Since my president is the chief target of Dillions political views , I guess my retorts to his insidious remarks makes me the other half of the offending duo.

If you want to ban me from posting fine . But I find Dillions last flurry of comments extremely insulting and are a direct personal attack on members of the café who have a different point of view.

My question to the moderators is when does he stop
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