#metoo

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#metoo

Postby Gusto10 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:01 pm

Recently the news has been bombarded by women who claim to have been abused by a man. As man I'm not confessing to being abused as such would be a lie. Neither have I abused anyone o the best of my knowledge. In many cases the "culprit" is still alive. In some cases not.
Seemingly we are confronted now by a form of judging of acts committed decades ago using the present day norms. This doesn't compute.
In the 50 and 60's it was common for women who had aspiration to be willing to those who might help them to achieve such aspirations. Seemingly such is forgotten and all off men now are portraid as being bad.
Such appraoches seem to be the new hype.
Another example. The slavery. Now such is portraid also as being wrong. Yes considering our present day norms, yes, BUT in these days it was normal. According to e.g.the book Isle in the Centre of the World, the free Africans, living among the Europeans, lived in the 16th and 17th century a live equal to the Europeans.
Migration from Africa has always taken place, amongst the scholars there is the consensus, that all men kind stems from Africa. In the 16th and 17th century the natives were put on shore by their families in order to be transported to the new world. They didn't pay, so who paid the ferryman? A person who was willing to do so and asked the transported person to work off his debts. Basic economics I would say. Their offspring received proper scholing and all have (nice) house to live in. The offspring of their great grandparents in Africa are living in some cases under conditions which aren't grand. Others live the life of a king. Now those who are considered as not needed there are send off by their families on rubber boats (provided by NGO's) and such is paid by their family. In essence the same idea, but payment up front instead of afterwards.
The Israelits came from Egypt (Africa) to the Middle east, became "Jews light"= Christians and kept on moving towards Europe. Nowadays there is still migration going on from Africa and the Middle east as indicated.
As Beachlion might know, there was an uproar concerning Sint Nicolaas and black Peter. Sint Nicolaas the Dutch predecessor of Saint Niclaus aka the X-mas man. Black Peter were a freed Africans who appreciated their old master in such a fashion that they decided to help out on the 5th of December, the birthday of Sint Nicolaas. Now that is considered by a woman from the Bahama's with a temporary job at the UN and her roots are in Africa as if they were discriminated.

What I want to say is that I have no respect for hypes based on statements without proof or from people who used the system to beat it (horizontal career planning) and now play cry baby cry.
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Re: #metoo

Postby Jim » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:57 pm

Gusto10 wrote:What I want to say is that I have no respect for hypes based on statements without proof or from people who used the system to beat it (horizontal career planning) and now play cry baby cry.

How does one prove what was done in private long ago?
What about the large percentage who didn't use "horizontal career planning"?
46.4% lesbians, 74.9% bisexual women and 43.3%
heterosexual women reported sexual violence other
than rape during their lifetimes, while 40.2% gay
men, 47.4% bisexual men and 20.8% heterosexual
men reported sexual violence other than rape during
their lifetimes. (p) -- https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf
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Re: #metoo

Postby crfriend » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:40 pm

Jim wrote:How does one prove what was done in private long ago?
What about the large percentage who didn't use "horizontal career planning"?

There are frequently hints to the former in assorted personal journals and correspondence that survive to the present day. It's actually quite remarkable how much we know about the thought-patterns of our forebears.

As for the latter, the large percentage has the satisfaction of achieving their ends by honest and just means -- to have taken the high road. Those that choose the low road are usually shunned by their peers, especially in meritocracies. Folks notice this stuff and are put off by it. Sure it happens, and it's a tool that can be used for "personal advancement"; however, from what I have witnessed over the years that advancement is short and fleeting, and is much reviled by those around the participants -- both. One whiff of shenanigans like that can utterly destroy the credibility of a boss in a meritocracy -- and can do it permanently, irrevocably, and instantly. Word also travels -- sometimes far and wide; it's been known to derail "careers" (for anyone who engages in such things cannot really have been concerned with a career in the first place).

Of note is that Hollywood is not a meritocracy for they produce nothing but fluff and image; it should not be judged as part of society as a whole as it exists in its own little vacuum. Note also that the "casting couch" has been a joke for as long as show-business has been around. There's nothing new here -- and this is where the latest furore has erupted, tempest-like in a teapot.
46.4% lesbians, 74.9% bisexual women and 43.3% heterosexual women reported sexual violence other than rape during their lifetimes, while 40.2% gay
men, 47.4% bisexual men and 20.8% heterosexual men reported sexual violence other than rape during their lifetimes. (p) -- https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf

We need to exercise extreme caution in interpreting numbers such as these as it's virtually certain they're being presented as part of a larger agenda. Recall that "figures don't lie, but liars figure." and you'll start to get the picture. Find the sometimes well-hidden agenda and then analyse the numbers in that context.
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Re: #metoo

Postby Gusto10 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:34 am

Just yesterday an incredible story. A woman working at a notaries office, second in place. She wanted to become the prima donna and thus filed a made up complaint with the brotherhood against het boss. In the end she is out of work and het former boss had to, in order to ensure continuation in case he would become ill etc., join for the last few years of his career a larger office.
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Re: #metoo

Postby crfriend » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:08 am

Gusto10 wrote:[... W]anted to become the prima donna and thus filed a made up complaint with the brotherhood against her boss.

So, in this instance of a false complaint, the boss was forced to change location -- possibly at some hardship -- and the accuser walked. What sort of justice is that?
If I'd have been him I'd have been out for blood -- possibly jail time and certainly recompense for losses (both financial and reputational/emotional) suffered.

Make. False. Claims. Hurt.
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Re: #metoo

Postby stevelous » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:36 pm

We are living in dangerous times, it seems that accusations of sexual harrasment can be based on anything, even passing a compliment. Alligations against the dead, real or imagined, can not be proven one way or the other. An innocent mans reputation can be smeared with no punishment if proven false. People often believe the 'no smoke without fire' situation.

I am aware of the Jimmy Saville situation and that it was totally awful for hìs victims, that makes me cross that he did what he did. But on the other hand false accusations also make me cross and devalue real victims.

Hollywood and other entertainment producing areas, the people who subscribe to the dream need to take a long hard look at them selves. The casting couch and its connotations should be a thing of the past. Sadly there will always be the desperate starlet or star determined to grasp success at what ever cost and casting directors who will take advantage (absolutly wrong on both levels). When it goes wrong or they no longer have the crowd appeal, someone makes accusations against some one, out of the wood work come more and more. Sadly often against a dead person who can not defend themselves.

goodness knows when or if it will end, but I hope those who made the mistake of 'sleeping' their way to success put it behind them so the voices of real victims, those raped, molested etc can get thier voice heard above the noise of those just trying to get noticed again.

I will support the victims of sexual crime as best I can and try to ignore those crying 'wolf'.
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Re: #metoo

Postby Sinned » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:34 pm

The trouble is Carl that life doesn't work like that. In most cases the female litigant walks free. Although there have been a handful of recent cases where the female has been jailed for a false claim where it is blatantly and I do emphasis blatantly obvious that the claim is a pack of lies.
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Re: #metoo

Postby crfriend » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:38 pm

Sinned wrote:The trouble is Carl that life doesn't work like that. In most cases the female litigant walks free.

I know that from first-hand experience, hence my lament and the call to make false accusations hurt. If an accuser knows that when/if a false claim is made and proved false then they shall be subject to the full force of law perhaps they'll be a bit less likely to make the claim in the first place.
Although there have been a handful of recent cases where the female has been jailed for a false claim where it is blatantly and I do emphasis blatantly obvious that the claim is a pack of lies.

Those are the exception. Pretty much all the time it's up to the man to prove his innocence and the accuser walks free leaving the defendant sometimes deeply in debt and perhaps without an income.
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Re: #metoo

Postby Gusto10 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:24 am

In this case the woman couldn't find a position any more within the brotherhood. Later on she walked out on het husband leaving him with the kids.

Just now I was reading an article on sugar babes and sugar daddy's. Female students providing services in order to pay for their tuition. In essence not much different from the entertainment canapé.
There seems to be a worldwide datingsite for sugar arrangements.
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