The role of a man...

[Sinned]

Jenn/Moon, I understand more than you think. MOH's family are all millionaires and yet we have very little to do with them as we are not. They move in different circles and think nothing of us. Because MOH changed her surname in marrying me they seem to have the attitude that she is no longer part of their family. RSOs I know to us but that's the way they think. The irony of it all is that many of them are now childless through chance and choice and the number to pass their money onto dwindling and ageing. So what will happen to their money I neither know or care. But I do know that the likelihood of it coming our way is as close to zero as makes no difference.

[stevelous]

Most of the family on my Dads side live in the Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire area of the English Midlands, we are quite a large family and at one time there was a village where everybody was a Lounds or directly related. Some feat that one.

Sadly some of the family have distanced them selves from the main bunch. They suffer from treminal religion and think they are better than us sinners. In the main I am in contact with my 1 aunt (sadly she and my Dad are the only survivors from , and about 20 cousins from 43 on my dads side.

On my Mums side I only had 4 cousins and am in contact with 3. No blood aunts or uncle left. The cousin that is estranged is a Banker under the control of his wife (she being another sufferer from terminal religion and she is too important to acknowledge us peasants so no real loss).

Sadly families are given to us, imperfect, vunerable and snobbish. Friends we choose imperfect, vunerable and accepting of our quirks.

Strangely the cousins that had the roughest upbringing are the best of the bunch. Hoping to go and see them in the new year. Not a long journey just 120 miles or so along the M1 motorway joining at Luton after using minor roads from mid Hertfordshire.

[moonshadow]

Pretty much everyone in both sides of my family is on equal financial footing. Nobody is particularly "well off", save for a few people scattered here and there.

Sadly families are given to us, imperfect, vunerable and snobbish. Friends we choose imperfect, vunerable and accepting of our quirks.

This is true, but I'm going to attempt to just accept it for what it is. They know where get a hold of me if they want to, in the mean time I'm just going to leave them alone and go on about my life.

[Daryl]

Procreation be damned. We do have souls, and though there are many out there who like to pretend we don't, it doesn't change the fact. There is more to us than our sperm count, or the strength of our backs. If they can't see that, then that's their loss.

Well, I don't believe in the notion of the soul, or any kind of core "self", but I think we both at least understand that the challenges we face here include a dimension that is best summed up in terms that our common language calls "spiritual". Life does not boil down to just simple moral principles, rights, biological facts, or anything that easy. Life is mysterious. Eclectic or not, that you have a sense of this is obvious, and I think enough common ground for us to communicate meaningfully and "get" each other when we do.

[Daryl]

For one, procreation should be damned in this day and age. What responsible, feeling, thoughtful individual would actually bring another human being into the morass that our modern world has been turned into -- by us, and our parents' generation? Only if one is very lucky will he not be reviled by the child he brings into the world once that child starts to observe precisely how bad things are.

So I'm thoughtless, irresponsible, and unfeeling?

Me thinkest thou art in a very "cup half empty" mood!

[Daryl]

Not all women use men for their wallets or what's between their legs.

This is true, I'm happy to report! Sometimes we confuse the general for the specific and wind up being very inaccurate and unfair.

Most men and women that I know in fact form intimate personal bonds that are not so calculating. It's only in the averages that these general trends appear. Those averages are perceived as norms and eventually treated as ideals and entrenched in culture and law, where they are then amplified and have effects on individuals. For example, men have studiously avoided wearing things that women wear, so are now expected to never wear any such thing. Since men largely conform to this, women on average expect that conformity, without it meaning anything in particular beyond that.

If most women expect men to behave like ATMs, it's only because that's what most men have historically been.

[crfriend]

Me thinkest thou art in a very "cup half empty" mood!

Bear in mind where I live -- a state which has a 17th Century mental outlook when it comes to matters of government and a megalomaniacal narcissist for a national president who seems to be itching to get into a shooting war with the Chinese and the Russians. Or the fact that I'm about to lose access to health care in another couple of months. What's not to love?

[moonshadow]

Or the fact that I'm about to lose access to health care in another couple of months.

Well, that kinda sorta sucks. I didn't think we even had such a thing to begin with... Sure, we have doctors, hospitals, and insurance people, but I'd hardly call it "health care", it's just another cash cow money making industry. It has nothing to do with caring for anyone's health... ur,uh... unless you're wealthy. In fact... lets just call it what it is hence forth.... WEALTH CARE. And we don't have "health insurance" we have "wealth assurance". It assures the wealth of the elite.

As long as I remain employed where I work I have no reason to suspect my wealth care (payment to the elite) will be going anywhere. No, they're happy to continue to take the $100 per week out of my check... too bad they don't actually cover anything. As I pointed out earlier, I went for a annual wellness exam (you know, the one Obama said was not supposed to cost anything), well aside from the $25 copay I swore I wasn't supposed to pay, they decided to drive the point home by sending me a $400 bill. [0] So I've just decided that barring any major medical issue, simple doctor visits and other such stuff I will just go without as they did in the dark ages and treat it with whatever home remedy I can think up. They say not to "google" health issues, but who can afford to go to the doctor anymore? If something major happens... well hopefully I they will be spaced out enough to where I can file bankruptcy between issues. So far I think you can exempt your primary home, but *shhhhhh* don't say that too loud, the elite will come after that too!

But hey... the most important thing is that our precious leaders have proper coverage, and oh lets not forget our celebrities and other well to do's. We wouldn't want them to get sick and suffer now would we??

[0] I suppose I should count my blessings, they submitted a claim to the insurance company for almost $3,000! ALL this for a routine wellness exam, in which he checked my blood pressure, my heart beat, and ran some lab work. Piss on that! *spit*

[Grok]

This is way off topic, but I think this is worth mentioning....

One of my brothers (who recently retired) worked for Blue Cross/Blue Shield. He told mr that New Mexico has a Federally backed risk pool. To summarize, he said that-in effect-the risk pool insures people who otherwise could not afford insurance.

I'm thinking that something like this might be desirable on a national scale, as an alternative to nothing. Part of a safety net, helping people to survive hard times.

[Grok]

Well, I might as mention this too, while I'm at it...

In response to high unemployment, I can imagine a program similar to the old Civilian Conservation Corps. During the Great Depression, the CCC put people to work, building new stuff. Actually, in the present I can imagine an emphasis on repairing old infrastructure.

[Sinned]

Well I know our NHS has its problems but Moon paints a bleak picture. I can't complain about the treatment I receive. I am now over 60 so all my prescriptions for drugs and so on are free. Even before that as a diabetic everything was free even if not tied to my diabetes. My glucose test strips, insulin, Metformin - all free. I have had a case where I went to see the doctor first thing one morning and had an appointment with a specialist that same afternoon. I have semi-annual checkups at the diabetic clinic with annual blood tests. I get an annual health checkup at the surgery - all free. I don't have to see a doctor for each prescription - I order them at the local chemist and pick up the stuff a few days later. I know there are horror stories of mistakes, neglect and lack of care but I've never experienced any of it. Maybe I just live in a good area and am lucky. I don't know, but I would hate to live in the US where these facilities are not available free.

Incidentally are diabetic medicines free in the US They should be as the complications from uncontrolled diabetes are grim and treatment/aftercare expensive.

[crfriend]

I know there are horror stories of mistakes, neglect and lack of care but I've never experienced any of it. Maybe I just live in a good area and am lucky. I don't know, but I would hate to live in the US where these facilities are not available free.

The horror stories are the sorts that are constantly fed to folks in the USA -- precisely to keep the general population off-balance. The USA had a vague shot at a proper solution in the early 1990s when it looked like we might actually get a single-payer system put into place. Unfortunately, the moneyed interests (read the "Insurance" companies) managed to get health care redefined as health "insurance". Also in the '90s Mitt Romney, then "governor" of Massachusetts (albeit mostly in absence as he was running for national president) rammed "Romneycare" through the state legislature as a gift to his billionaire buddies. This was the genesis of what's widely derided as "Obamacare" and which conferred unto for-profit private enterprise the power to tax. This shot healthcare costs in Massachusetts through the roof all the while actually reducing the ability of actually being able to see a doctor and receive care. This was later lifted, pretty much verbatim, during Dubya's (George W. Bush) third term as president and forms the basis of what we endure today. Greed being what greed is, and it's never enough, the game now is afoot to up the ante and further impoverish what's left of the middle class and really points up what's merely a wealth-transfer scheme. Make no bones about it, the USA has NO health care system. None.

I try frequently to dispel the common belief (here) of the horrors of the NHS and the Canadian system, but even in an intelligent and inquisitive lot cannot gain a foothold -- and I pay attention to the voices I hear from abroad. It's a lost game now.

Incidentally are diabetic medicines free in the US They should be as the complications from uncontrolled diabetes are grim and treatment/aftercare expensive.

Are you kidding?! You must be. All the money is made in treatment. If there was a cure for the malady then all that money would stay with those who earned it! We cannot have that. It would not do.

[john62]

In Australia we have Medicare, if you are on a pension or Concession Card Holder, one has to pay for scripts but not much about $6 and then if you go over the limit it becomes free. The biggest problem is waiting times for Specialist care, if you need a hip replacement maybe looking at a 6-12 month wait. If you are employed the costs are more, as I have diabetes the scripts are $36 and test strips $16 for 100 strips. And of course Specialists usually charge well over the Medicare charge and the excess is out of your pocket. The Diabetic Specialist charges $140 for an consultation, I get back about $70 from Medicare.

John

[Sinned]

Carl, I kid you not. One of the reasons quoted as to why diabetic medicine is free is that if left uncontrolled then there is blood vessel and nerve damage leading to circulation problems and amputation of limbs. Then there's damage to the retina resulting in blindness. The costs of aftercare with prosthetics, surgery for heart problems and education for blindness, along with social care with health visitors and so on are, as you know, astronomical. So offering free diabetic medicine is seen more as an investment. The NHS is not concerned with making profits and the after-care treatments are part of the NHS; the health insurance industry here doesn't have the clout that it does in the US. It may not be perfect and may be expensive in terms of national cost but it's the best we have.

My glucose levels are well under control and I suffer few problems. There are the very beginnings of retinal damage and considering I have only sight in one eye that is serious for me. But as the specialist said to me a few months ago he would have been surprised after 20 years a diabetic if I didn't have some effect and what I have is nothing to worry about. A mere pinprick or two. Otherwise I am mobile and appear healthy.

[oldsalt1]

[quote="john62"]In Australia we have Medicare, i The biggest problem is waiting times for Specialist care, if you need a hip replacement maybe looking at a 6-12 month wait.

Cr Please don't tell me that you are blaming Bush for the state of our health care. WE had high winds and coastal flooding last night is that Bush's fault. My premiums were a lot cheaper before Obama stuck his nose in it. And I can never remember anyone having a $3000 or more deductable.

Single payer don't work I Quoted John showing what that causes a 6 to 12 month waiting period. And along with the waiting period comes the oh you are too old for that procedure.

And before you quote a 6 paragraph response Tell me can you honestly say you have better and cheaper healthcare today than you did pre obama care