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skirtcafe.org • View topic - The role of a man...

The role of a man...

Non-fashion, non-skirt, non-gender discussions. If your post is related to fashion, skirts or gender, please choose one of the forums above for it.

The role of a man...

Postby moonshadow » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:20 pm

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Re: The role of a man...

Postby JennC03 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:37 pm

¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆Have a wonderful day! ☆•*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* * It's good to look at those we love with fresh eyes whenever we can to remind us how lucky we are to have their light in our lives.
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby moonshadow » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:54 pm

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Re: The role of a man...

Postby JennC03 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:33 pm

¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆Have a wonderful day! ☆•*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* * It's good to look at those we love with fresh eyes whenever we can to remind us how lucky we are to have their light in our lives.
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby moonshadow » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:37 pm

Consider this example:

You mention finding another job, and taking courses to those ends....

Lets look at that for a moment. When my skirting was outed at work, it didn't go over too well. It was a harsh reminder of my role as a man, and that is, in this case, to do my job, to repair things, to keep the company's equipment in working order. Anything outside of that, even during off duty time, unless it's socially acceptable, opens me up to judgement. It was decided to allow me to stay, and I was told "off the record" that it "might be a good idea to stay out of their stores while like that". So what does this tell me? This tells me that as a man, I I want to make a living there, I'm required to essentially censor a part of me that makes me who I am... I can't even go to the off duty company picnic unless I wear trousers, essentially, to be what they want me to be. And lets face it Jenn, even my "friends" at work would rather I not come around dressed freely.

If I find another job, naturally I'd search one that was progressive in LGBT issues... but why? I'm not LGB or T. Simply because even in these types of companies, you just can't be "a man in a skirt", no, you have to be a trans-woman.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

The conservatives and traditionalist want me to stop all this foolishness and "act like a man".

The liberals and progressives will only let me sit at their table if I claim to be a "woman"....

I'm not allowed to just be me.... (but women are)

It really sucks!

I don't want to have to check the trans box when I apply for a job so Affirmative Action will protect me. What I WANT is for society to stop making me feel like sh!t all of the time for being what I am!
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby JennC03 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:02 pm

¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆Have a wonderful day! ☆•*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* * It's good to look at those we love with fresh eyes whenever we can to remind us how lucky we are to have their light in our lives.
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby Fred in Skirts » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:22 pm

Moon and Jenn, I think though you have hit the nail on the head it was a glancing blow. We as humans are a strange lot (to put it as one alien from Sci Fi once said "Bags of mostly water". We have a mind that is one of the most advance in nature, we have feelings, that can be hurt faster than a speeding bullet, and we need companionship more than any other animal in the world. We crave that in many ways and if we don't find it or enough of it we become morose and desire to harm ourselves. I live alone not necessarily of my own volition, but I manage to enjoy what I have. I decided after my medical problem that started me wearing skirts to continue to wear them. This separated me even farther from the world of my parents and my upbringing. At my age (74) I do not give a damn about society any more or how I come across to people in general. My youngest daughter accepts my skirts as well as my grandsons, to them it is not weird at all. In fact my middle grandson wears kilts and has actually made one to wear.

All this to say my dear friends is don't over think it. Let sleeping dogs lie as they say. Trying to understand this world will drive you insane. But being a little crazy never hurt anyone. In fact it helps. [0]

You have each other to hold to and do so all of the time, never let the world come between you and your love for each other.

Make love not worry!!! :lol:


[0] There is a big difference between insane and crazy. Insane is a disease and being crazy is the only way to survive.
:kiltdance:

"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle."

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Re: The role of a man...

Postby oldsalt1 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:43 am

First I want to say that I think the two of you need to sit down with professional help . In doing your own research you seek out references that agree with the way that you are feeling instead of trying to find the root of problems.

We are all not going to be super stars. we have to be able to find our own little place in the world and be happy with the results.

My own opinion. please take it as only that. OK so maybe you haven't been able to reach the level of success that you want in the working business side of your life.OK so lets face it wearing a skirt does not help the issue. Just maybe in your subconscious you are using your wearing skirts as a convenient reason for your not reaching the level of success that you want.

If you are trying to compete in the world you can not win if give yourself a major handy cap before you start.

Just maybe it is time to put away the skirts and just get out there and do what you have to do to reach that level of success.

You have worth you have a family to take care of and provide for.I don't think that Jenn thinks you are expendable and I am sure that your daughter doesen't .

Please get help Dan
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby moonshadow » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:37 am

Thanks for the responses.

There may very well be a lot of hidden truth in what you say OldSalt. I'm pretty sure however that being a big "success" isn't really high on my list of wants. I'm actually not very materialistic. I've had issues being taken seriously at various jobs long before the skirts came into question. I just have a big character flaw I need to root out one way or the other.

I have considered giving the skirts and religious stuff a rest though, not because it's giving me undue grief, but simply to cut out the background noise so I can clear my head. I do enjoy wearing them, but I've already started cutting out the "negative" places where I run into problems, choosing to wear them only when there are few people around. We'll see... the Jury is still out on that...

I think a big part of my problem is I tend to overthink everything, and then over-talk about my results.

As far as the professional help. The advise is sound, however I really can't afford it right now, besides, I'm reasonably sure their answer is just going to be in a bottle of pills. Nah... I'd rather work through this the hard way. Do not worry, I'm NOT going to kill myself.

I do think I need to take a step back for a while and take some time to figure out exactly what direction I want to go henceforth. I also need to decide if I want to confront my family about their shunning me (which by the way predates my skirts, so that's not the reason), or cut them out of my life and be done with them once in for all. Not sure yet, but I can't continue to go on in limbo like this forever.

Thanks for the responses.
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby JennC03 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:57 am

¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆Have a wonderful day! ☆•*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* * It's good to look at those we love with fresh eyes whenever we can to remind us how lucky we are to have their light in our lives.
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby oldsalt1 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:17 pm

I don' think I know anybody who hasn't had problems with family. If its been a while give it a shot If nothing comes of it nothing lost . Maybe start by trying to connect on the internet. that could be a painless way .

Hey moon your mothers family name is known and respected in town , and since I only live about 3 miles from there , you could always give me an address and I could drive over :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby oldsalt1 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:24 pm

Hey Moon does your mothers family have anything to do with electrical contracting. Because it just dawned on that is also the last name of the electrician I have been using for work in my houses for the last 15 years
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby moonshadow » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:22 am

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Re: The role of a man...

Postby Darryl » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:29 am

Expendable? Not if I can help it.
[list=]
When faced with imminent draft, I enlisted in the Navy and was able to take my existing vocational school computer programming training and get a computer job with no more risk than any other industrial site.

As a sworn peace officer, after the reality that I wasn't being paid enough for the risk hit, I migrated back to the computer world, but this time with Advanced Electronics training and 4.5 years experience.

I've enjoyed firearms and tactical training and have had the benefit of a friend being one of the top trainers in the country who trained some of his other civilian friends and myself and used us as guinea pigs for stuff he was about to surprise the Military guys going over to the sandbox with.

After legal training in the "Judicious Use of Deadly Force" I decided that if I find myself too close to an Active Shooter I and any of my loved ones with me will immediately move to ex-filtrate the area, working as a team. If I am forced to engage the shooter and win - you just got lucky. Otherwise, I hope you are armed and have sufficient training. The police have no legal duty to protect an individual citizen, and I have even less - especially in today's litigious environment.
[/list]

As to skirting:
[list=]
Most people at my church have seen that I wear skirts and dresses and present as a male. Most of the time I 'dress up' for church in a kilt suit or skirt suit but have shown up in other gear from time to time. Once I cam straight from Iroquois Hill to a meeting in a 'cool' A/C environment that lasted about an hour and when we got up to leave my hat was still damp...a friend looked me up and down and commented "Your HAT is sweating. And as time goes on I notice more people outside my immediate circle of friends speaking with me, shaking hands and the like. On Wednesday nights I speak up sometimes and share insights and other items from Scripture and life experience when it seems appropriate."

At work I have shown up in 14th century kilted garb when the RenFair or Highland Games or Celtic Festival is going on...and have shown up in various skirted outfits when called in for an emergency fix. That said, I've begun carrying pants in the car because there are times I have to get on the floor and crawl around or up a ladder to find cabling in the overheads.[/list]

As to design:
[list=]
When first presented, men and women are on quite egalitarian terms. The genders are mentioned almost as an afterthought: "So G-d created Mankind in His own image, in the image of G-d He created him, male and female He created them (Ge 1:27)." The blessings that they received, including dominion over the earth and the charge to subdue it, are all addressed in the plural, indicating that both man and woman would share them.

"It is not good that the man should be alone (Ge 2:18)." - The solution to the problem is obvious: "I will make a help to match him (2:18)." (Or, in Rosenzweig’s words: "a helper equal to him.") Strangely, the biblical narrative does not proceed directly with Eve’s creation, but, rather, tells of how G-d created specimens of all of the living creatures and brought them before Adam so that he might name them. The purpose of this interruption in the narrative becomes clear when we read its concluding verse: "And man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for the man there was not found a help to match him [a helper equal to him]" (Ge 2:20).

Everything less than this is due to humanity "missing the mark" and failing to love G-d and love our neighbor as ourselves.
[/list]

Everyone has to make up their own mind. Weigh the actual or at least the perceived risks and decide to seek a more liberal environment or make the best of what they have. I live in a town that is considered one of the most liberal in the state, on the other hand Having had to move from the Highlands in 2000, I now find myself in the southwestern part of town along Dixie Highway (more "rednecks" in the population).

I've always been an introvert and not all that gregarious, but it appears that making the effort to walk up and greet people, ask if they would like to go to lunch and otherwise get to know them and let them get to know you helps...they say "he is a normal guy" and you're either OK or someone they like. Be helpful, write a postcard, send a text, make a call. If they need help doing something, lend a hand. Then when they see you in a nice little burgundy sweater dress it's just "oh! well, that's just Darryl."

In some of my earlier research, it was stated in a couple of sources that every time a woman wore pants back in the day and someone else gave them grief over it, or even today if a woman wants to "think outside the box" and be different...a friend of theirs seems to always be available to hurl charges of sexism, insensitivity, and oppression back at them. In general, men won't have this kind of support network because they don't work at it...and there is that 'toxic masculinity' society programs into our children in general.

Just sayin'
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Re: The role of a man...

Postby moonshadow » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:11 am

Lots of good points in your post Darryl, thanks for writing it!

I'm going to work on re-centering myself. I think over the last little bit I've gotten away from my core to an extent.

I think I'm overdue for a walk in the mountain....
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