An observation

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PatJ
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An observation

Post by PatJ »

Here in Wisconsin, we have four seasons in the year: almost winter, winter, still winter, and road construction.

We are in road construction season and I was stopped in the middle of a section of road by a flagman as various activities were going on all around me on both sides of the road. One worker caught my attention - it was a rather young attractive lady with a blond ponytail sticking out of her hard hat running a bulldozer.

I've seen women running heavy equipment before, but she was the youngest (and most attractive) one that I have seen running such equipment.

The point of the post is simply that if freedom do work at any job one is suitable for is becoming the norm regardless of gender, why hasn't wearing whatever clothing suitable for a job regardless of gender become the norm?

By the way, it was 15 minutes sitting there at the flag before any traffic from either direction was allowed to move. But then, this stretch of highway was scheduled to be re-constructed nearly 10 years ago, but got delayed when a certain political party came into power and the road deteriorated beyond their expectations.
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denimini
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Re: An observation

Post by denimini »

That sounds like it would be a terrible climate for mini skirts. I suppose OK sitting in the car during road construction.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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moonshadow
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Re: An observation

Post by moonshadow »

PatJ wrote:The point of the post is simply that if freedom do work at any job one is suitable for is becoming the norm regardless of gender, why hasn't wearing whatever clothing suitable for a job regardless of gender become the norm?
That's a really good question. It's true that pretty much any job is suitable for all genders. I know of women who have worked in virtually every field a man has, and vice versa.

Except for one... male home-making. While it is practiced by a few men, it is generally considered a taboo lifestyle and the man who is "the stay at home dad" is typically teased and perhaps even shunned to a degree by the local community.

I think it goes back to that age old observation.... outside work used to be considered a "mans domain", and masculinity and anything to do with it are championed, so as with clothing, women are free to indulge in any lifestyle, clothing choice, or occupation that is/was typically associated with men, and generally pop culture often promotes women as superior in many aspects.

In other words, according to the latest trends and media opinions, women are better at being men than men are...! :shock:

Still yet, for a man to engage in a more submissive occupation such as home making, and even some other "outside the home" occupations are still subject to a little teasing, I.E. nursing, assistant, secretarial, etc... - that is still considered shameful and of a lower stature than the more traditional "male" occupations.

But to summarize this and answer your question more directly:
"...why hasn't wearing whatever clothing suitable for a job regardless of gender become the norm?"

Because the people in our society have their head up their asses.... :roll:
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Caultron
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Re: An observation

Post by Caultron »

As opportunities for women have expanded, I don't think the phenomenon of the wife earning more than the husband is that unusual any more.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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r.m.anderson
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Re: An observation

Post by r.m.anderson »

denimini wrote:That sounds like it would be a terrible climate for mini skirts. I suppose OK sitting in the car during road construction.
No worse than your Australian outback with the heat extremes (you are closer to the equator by some 20 degrees).
One can get acclimated after living in an area for awhile yet one does not go to the artic circle for that extraordinary sun tan.
With global warming at hand - if some political types acting like a sorcerers' apprentice have their way Australia may become
the new North Pole and Wisconsin sitting somewhere in equatorial Africa beachfront property all around.
Ya hyperbole and exaggeration - I am no Nostradamus but putting one's finger in the dyke is not going work this time and
Don Quixote is going to need sea horses to fight submerged windmills - the London Tower Bridge won't need the lower section -
won't need the Panama or Suez canals and Noah's Ark will resume docking at Mt. Aarat with a new cruise mission !

Whew gotta stop having a drink while writing my typeth runneth overprint !

Weather extremes can be handled just wear sensible clothing - take it off - take it all off - no wait stop that's going too far !
Freeze dried flesh and charcoal brazen crusted skin are not solutions but indications of a folly taken to a bridge too far !

Somebody kick the soap box out from underneath me - Oh wait I need my scuba gear !
"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
happykilt
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Re: An observation

Post by happykilt »

moonshadow wrote: ...
Except for one... male home-making. While it is practiced by a few men, it is generally considered a taboo lifestyle and the man who is "the stay at home dad" is typically teased and perhaps even shunned to a degree by the local community.
...
Still yet, for a man to engage in a more submissive occupation such as home making, and even some other "outside the home" occupations are still subject to a little teasing, I.E. nursing, assistant, secretarial, etc... - that is still considered shameful and of a lower stature than the more traditional "male" occupations.
Interesting. Different cultures, perhaps.
In Finland I know there are a couple of "stay at home dads" and men working in kindergartens and to my knowledge, none of them are teased or their occupation considered shameful by anybody.
PatJ
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Re: An observation

Post by PatJ »

Caultron wrote:As opportunities for women have expanded, I don't think the phenomenon of the wife earning more than the husband is that unusual any more.
It may not be unusual, but I know of more than a few instances where the husband could not stand the fact that his wife earned more than he did. The end result in more than a few of these instances led to divorce.

Sometimes the male ego can be damaged severely by the perception of not measuring up to "antiquated" standards.
PatJ
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Re: An observation

Post by PatJ »

"Weather extremes can be handled just wear sensible clothing"

As far as weather extremes are concerned, it is always possible to put on more clothes, but there is a limit to what one can take off. LOL I guess that's why I continue to live in the Northern regions.
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Caultron
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Re: An observation

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PatJ wrote:It may not be unusual, but I know of more than a few instances where the husband could not stand the fact that his wife earned more than he did. The end result in more than a few of these instances led to divorce.

Sometimes the male ego can be damaged severely by the perception of not measuring up to "antiquated" standards.
I'm sure that happens, but certainly not always.

I know of one instance where the wife is a doctor and the husband is a software developer. She's always going to make more money than him and he's OK with that.

I know of another where the wife is extremely intelligent and in medical school, well on her way to being a brilliant doctor. He's an ambulance driver who aspires to become a physician's assistant.

In another the wife works in commercial roofing sales and the husband claims he's a science fiction writer who's had a block for some twenty years now. It looks now as if she's ready to divorce him but that not him feeling threatened.

I think it helps if the husband can be fairly independent living the life he wants on his own income. Like, the wife's income may pay most of the bills but the husband certainly doesn't need to ask, "Can I have $10 to go to the movies?"
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
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beachlion
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Re: An observation

Post by beachlion »

I learned my lesson about the stereotypes of women quite early in my professional life.
Around 1970, I was working for a dredging company, a very macho environment. I was supervising a repair of a dredger in a drydock of a big German shipyard. For some reason, I needed to talk to the head of the repair department. I went to the main office building and was pointed to the room of the repair head man. When I entered the big room, I saw a nice looking woman at a desk, a little older than me. A few other desks and drawing tables were empty, maybe because of lunch time. With a friendly smile she asked how she could help me. I asked her where her boss was. She asked about what. I said that it was too technical to explain. The smile was gone and her eyes were flaming. She removed some papers from her desk to uncovered a name plate: Frau Diplom Ingenieur such and so. My face was red as a lobster and I started to bring out excuses. I guess my mistreatment of the German language must have melted her and we discussed the problems over lunch.

I also noted that they had bathrooms without gender distinction. That was as said around 1970. The first time I used a bathroom, I saw a woman touching up her lips. I made an excuse and went looking for another bathroom. But the lady came after me and explained the situation.
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Re: An observation

Post by pelmut »

beachlion wrote:I learned my lesson about the stereotypes of women quite early in my professional life.
Around 1970,....
I learned a similar lesson around 1970:
I was developing a piece of research equipment for night vision, the tube had only just come off the military 'secret' list and the data sheet was a bit sparse. I telephoned the manufacturers and asked to speak to Dr. Smith who had developed it. A young lady answered, said that Dr. Smith was away and asked if she could help. Assuming she was Dr. Smith's secretary, I slowly dictated my question. She replied with a precise answer to the problem, followed by a comprehensive explanation of the electron optics which had caused it.

It turned out that she was Dr. Brown who, with her female colleague Dr. Smith, were the physicists who had invented and developed the device.
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PatJ
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Re: An observation

Post by PatJ »

I used to enjoy watching construction crews working on a project. I simply
find it interesting how everything comes together when competent people
are working on the project.

This morning, on my morning walk (got to get the 10,000 steps in) I noticed
a house getting a new roof. I was watching the workers as I approached and
then one turned and I had more of a profile view - yep - another woman worker
on top of a house laying shingles.

Now I really want to watch the workers, but since my wife was walking with me,
we walked on past the construction site. Oh well!
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