Importance

[hoborob]

I have been thinking about the topic of what is important to us. I would like to ask this question then. In order of its importance to you give me a list of what is important to you as far as the US is concerned, please give your reasoning if you have any. While this is primarily aimed at US citizens if others wish to chime in and give your views you are welcome. I will hold out for a while and review what others have to say before I will give what my list is. Partly because I only have a vague idea of what that is at this point in time.

[Caultron]

I believe the signature issue of our time is concentration of wealth.

Few economies in history have managed to grow more than about 2% a year. Meanwhile, capitalists, noblemen, investors, and so forth (the "wealthy") tend to get at least a 5% rate of return on investment, because if they didn't, they wouldn't make that investment.

So every year the wealthy gets 5% richer and everybody else gets 5 - 2 = 3% poorer.

Government tends to be an opposite force by levying taxes and redistributing wealth downward.

But lately, corporations and the wealthy have so much freedom to dump huge amounts of cash into politics that they can easily sway elections. And naturally, they sway them toward even higher concentrations of wealth and against lower (if any) downward concentrations.

If the disparity of wealth grows too large, the usual result is revolution. The French, American, and Russian revolutions are all examples.

Hopefully the United States will avoid that, or at least have their revolution at the ballot box. But so far the opposite is happening because most citizens are voting based on key issues and against their own well-being.

[Jim]

We better be careful not to get into a political war here; these are political issues. Maybe we should avoid arguing back, but just say "I disagree"?

I think Caultron hit one very important one. I believe starred issues listed below are related.

Avoiding nuclear war remains a top issue to me.

*Attempting to mitigate the anticipated catastrophic climate change is also a top issue.

*Health care available to all.

I am concerned about the millions of people who die through abortion, and the problem that this is often not even the "choice" of the mother, but is pressured or coerced.

And turning away from political controversy, to another controversial area, of greatest importance is the spiritual condition of Americans. We need to turn to God.

[crfriend]

Avoiding nuclear war remains a top issue to me.

That's an obvious one, and I don't think we've ever been so close to "midnight" as we are looming into now. (I believe the "Doomsday Clock" was retired a while ago -- a bit too early, I suspect.) However, if the birds fly, at least it'll be over fairly quickly for much of the population. If you're lucky, you won't even see the flash.

My biggest worry is that an already tenuous social fabric will be ripped completely asunder and the place will revert to some entirely kinky form of martial law.

[...] of greatest importance is the spiritual condition of Americans. We need to turn to God.

As always, the question needs asking: Whose god? That is not a rhetorical question. There are several that in conflict with each other -- and sometimes themselves. How are those conflicts to be resolved? Killing, perhaps, all adherents to all gods but yours? That's been tried before, fortunately, unsuccessfully.

It'll be interesting to see what the incoming crop of billionaires and generals will replace Romeycare with. My money is on at least that both the "Individual Mandate" will remain in force and that the exclusion of pre-existing conditions for acceptance will be dropped, likely more

[Jim]

[...] of greatest importance is the spiritual condition of Americans. We need to turn to God.

As always, the question needs asking: Whose god? That is not a rhetorical question. There are several that in conflict with each other -- and sometimes themselves. How are those conflicts to be resolved? Killing, perhaps, all adherents to all gods but yours? That's been tried before, fortunately, unsuccessfully.

Whose god? Most believe there is but one God. The problem comes in trying to understand and describe God, who, being infinite, can never be fully understood or described.

I believe God is most fully revealed in Jesus of Nazareth, who commanded his followers to "love your enemy." That is not compatible with killing other people. (Oops, I just made another controversial statement!)

[crfriend]

Whose god? Most believe there is but one God.

Yep -- Theirs, and the rest are damned.

The problem comes in trying to understand and describe God, who, being infinite, can never be fully understood or described.

This is where dogma comes into play, and dogma is easily misconstrued by non-scholars and, worse, easily twisted by creative scholars.

I believe God is most fully revealed in Jesus of Nazareth, who commanded his followers to "love your enemy." That is not compatible with killing other people.

That's commendable, but is only one interpretation of one religion's dogma. I'll remind that that same dogma, interpreted slightly differently, not only allowed the Crusades to happen, but fostered them and arguably brought down a civilisation more advanced than that of the attackers'. Beyond that embarrassment to the human species, there have been plenty of examples where war has been waged by one religion against its own blood brother. These things should not be cherished and exalted; they should serve as a source of shame.

[Jim]

there have been plenty of examples where war has been waged by one religion against its own blood brother. These things should not be cherished and exalted; they should serve as a source of shame.

Absolutely!

[oldsalt1]

I believe that safety is a major issue.Being able to go to a game, a show , night club without the fear that some nut job is going to blow it up or going on a shooting spree.

Jobs and the revitalization of our economy . I truly believe that most people do not want to be on the dole. and they would like nothing better than to have a decent job with decent pay so that they can provide for themselves and their family.

[Gregg1100]

Sorry- I have to say what god ??. I must be an atheist- doesn't believe a word of it all. Too much scientific evidence against religion--which is only a belief. You don't need religion to bring up a family who don't break the law, are kind to others and want to help those less fortunate.
I have never mentioned religion here or any other forum before, and won't again. Rarely mention politics either---too boring. Politicians are only out to make themselves richer at the expense of the majority. Always have, always will.
If you believe in religion- up to you. Not too excited to see it here.

[Disaffected.citizen]

I believe that safety is a major issue.Being able to go to a game, a show , night club without the fear that some nut job is going to blow it up or going on a shooting spree.

Jobs and the revitalization of our economy . I truly believe that most people do not want to be on the dole. and they would like nothing better than to have a decent job with decent pay so that they can provide for themselves and their family.

Although this thread is primarily intended for the US contingent, I think Oldsalt fairly represents here what most people around the world would like.

[Jim]

Gregg, the question here is "what is important to you as far as the US is concerned"? For many the answers will fall in the categories of religion and politics. What is important to you?

[Caultron]

I'm no expert in Hinduism, but they apparently have an idea that God is so far above us that for us to understand God is like an insect trying to understand the sun.

So all we can do is strive to understand one small facet at a time. Hence, the Hindu pantheon of deities.

But this concept suggests to me that neither the Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Bhuddist, nor any other image of God is accurate. God is entirely beyond our understanding. And so the whole idea of one true God or set of gods is bunk. We each relate to God according to the way we perceive Him, and that's as good as it gets.

[oldsalt1]

I agree with Jim this is not a discussion about god. stay on subject

[partlyscot]

I believe God is most fully revealed in Jesus of Nazareth, who commanded his followers to "love your enemy." That is not compatible with killing other people. (Oops, I just made another controversial statement!)

I would like to point out that virtually all major religions have the same rule, which can be reduced to, "Treat others as you would wish to be treated"

http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/beg ... faiths.jpg

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Carl, you call people out for their disrupting the flow of the thread by being argumentative, as you should. Now I'm calling you out (and the rest of you for taking the bait). All of you, please reread this in sequence. Notice that Hoborob ask that we list the ISSUES that are important to each of us and why and that we refrain from arguing with one another until the lists were up there. I'd also ask you to notice where the train ran off that track and how each of the respondents contributed to the train wreck.

Hoborob it's a real challenge to prioritize these things, but I'll try.

1) Prevent nuclear war -- if we stumble into that everything else becomes moot
2) Take steps to stop contributing to climate change and do what we can to reverse the effects -- about the same case as #1, the problem is that the effects are more subtle so they're not obvious to the average individual and consequently don't LOOK urgent, but they are.
3) Income inequality -- Caultron described the likely effects quite well.
4) Lack of universal health care -- denying a person healthcare is effectively denying them the right to life. At that point the other 2 basic rights are moot. We got darn close under the Affordable Care Act but now the Republicans are determined to take that away from the working poor.
5) Unrepresentative government -- the paradox of Hillary winning the popular vote and Trump winning the election is just the tip of the iceberg. The seats in the House of Representatives are apportioned in a manner that doesn't come close to reflecting the differences in population amongst the states. Gerrymandering compounds the problem.
6) Unaffordable higher education -- nearly every job worth having in a developed economy requires post high school education of one form or another and yet it's priced out of the reach of the middle class. If we don't reverse this trend we will indeed hollow out our economy because today human capital is much more the constraint than physical capital.
7) Crumbling physical infrastructure -- turn on History or Discovery Channel almost any day and you can learn about what a mess our country's physical plant is.
8 ) Pres. Donald Trump -- if that man doesn't get the country into a war, civil or international if not both, it will be a miracle. Already people all over the world are shaking their heads in disgust and dismay at their American cousins (yes, we have them spread all over the world, it's one of our greater strengths) wondering what were we thinking and how will it affect the world.

Thanks for asking Hoborob