Importance

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Disaffected.citizen
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Re: Importance

Post by Disaffected.citizen »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote: the inherent fallacy
I have a BIG problem with these words. They are confrontational, period. Not useful for a debate.

Sadly, I think this thread has all the potential of degenerating rapidly. Watch this space......
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Importance

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Clearly, Carl your conclusion is correct that only political discussions that Café members will feel comfortable with are those that relate directly to skirting. But I'm not sure how much of a discussion that will be; surely no one on this forum is in favor of laws forbidding males from wearing skirts!
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oldsalt1
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Re: Importance

Post by oldsalt1 »

Ray wrote:The question was about prime concerns in relation to the USA.

3. The pressing need for a national healthcare system. This is the hallmark of a civilised nation, and while most of the G8 countries have some form of basic free healthcare, open to all, the USA lacks this. The ACA was a step towards this although I understand that it was flawed. Still, the idea was a good one - but make it free. This again helps with social inequality.

5. Remove or reduce the influence of religion on the state. When you can have a non religious president, that's a sign of progress. Religion should play no part in politics, but instead should be a right of all citizens to possess and to follow, whatever that religion may be.
Yes we do need a universal healthcrae system Obamacare was just not the right one. This is what we hear about the healthcare in the UK
1. that you sometimes have to wait weeks for a doctors appointment.
2. and depending on age certain procedures are not allowed because the long term benefits to the patient are not worth the cost
I have also heard this about other countries with universal or free health care. There are always stories about people from Canada coming to the US for procedures that are not available to them

Religious beliefs were a major factor in the formation of our country "One Nation Under God" and to remove it totally goes against the basic fabric of our country
Last edited by Uncle Al on Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: corrected formatting for 'Quotes'
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Re: Importance

Post by crfriend »

[Mod hat on]

Gentlemen, I will call your attention to the final posts in the "Open Letter" thread. Whilst the general points on the assorted lists are salient, the commentary by some on individual points are dangerously close to being out of line. Self-moderate your wording and demeanour or it will be moderated for you.

Discordant noise from competing echo-chambers is NOT welcome here.

Merci.
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Re: Importance

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oldsalt1 wrote:Religious beliefs were a major factor in the formation of our country "One Nation Under God" and to remove it totally goes against the basic fabric of our country
For the record, the addition of the words "under god" came during the McCarthy years (1954) -- in other words, very recently. They were not part of the original.
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Re: Importance

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Oldsalt, thanks for the responses.

The NHS (National Health System) is not without its problems, but by and large it is a remarkably effective health system. Waits for a doctor's appointment can vary but it is usually possible to secure an appointment within a week, and if the issue is serious, then appointments are arranged much more quickly. In terms of cost benefit analysis on treatment for, say, elderly patients, it is true to say that on some occasions, there will be a debate around the efficacy of certain procedures, these are relatively rare instances. My own personal experience of the NHS is pretty good. I broke a collar bone several years ago and the treatment I received was excellent. I have also seen my mother treated by the NHS for cancer, and I cannot recommend the stuff highly enough. Their care was phenomenal.

It is fair to say that the NHS received a huge amount of support from the public at large, and indeed many of the political debates in the UK are framed around the preservation and enhancement of the NHS. Nobody I know wants to see it go. I have private medical healthcare, and I still use the NHS (rarely, luckily; I appear to be healthy).

Hope that gives some insight.

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Re: Importance

Post by Ray »

Dave, I took no offence at your "fallacy" comments. Just saying.
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Importance

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Thank you Ray.

Disaffected Citizen, I don't understand your problem with my use of the word "fallacy." If you want to explain your problem in a post or a PM I'll read it, but I used the word accurately because in all good faith I was pointing out that while that is how the issue of gun legislation is often framed it posits a false dichotomy that's been perpetuated by the NRA and its ilk to foreclose rational discussion of the subject.

Oldsalt, you say that the Affordable Care Act "wasn't the right way" to increase healthcare coverage so what is the right way? If you don't have a good answer offhand, you've got a lot of company. The Republicans on Capital Hill have spent the last 8 years categorically rejecting all of the Democrats' proposals but have yet to come up with a viable proposal of their own.

Most ludicrous of all is the Trump-Ryan notion of offering tax credits for health savings plans and high-risk pools for people with pre-existing conditions as a means of making healthcare insurance available to all. Those proposals make about as much sense as eliminating mass transit as unnecessary because rich and poor alike have "access' to Ferraris.
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Re: Importance

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What was it that I said back in this post?

If you didn't read it, READ IT.
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Re: Importance

Post by Ray »

Going in a safer direction - but still soliciting views of those in the USA - what's the received wisdom on the game of football, aka soccer, in the USA? Niche game, beginning of a breakthrough, generational issue (young get it, oldies don't)?

I'm curious. It's a safe topic too (I think!)
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Importance

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Ray wrote:Going in a safer direction - but still soliciting views of those in the USA - what's the received wisdom on the game of football, aka soccer, in the USA? Niche game, beginning of a breakthrough, generational issue (young get it, oldies don't)?

I'm curious. It's a safe topic too (I think!)
Ray it just ain't football!! :D

I have heard it called footsie ball. Not a very nice way to call it a sissy sport. However I have seen some very nasty fights on the soccer field. So I don't personally think of it as sissy but still it just ain't football. :lol:
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Re: Importance

Post by trainspotter48 »

Ray,
I have the misfortune to live close to a football (soccer) ground. This used to be the home of our local rugby team, and apart from parking problems on match days, there was never any effect on the neighborhood. All this changed with the arrival of the soccer team. The limited amount of car parking within the ground was quickly sold off for housing development, while meanwhile we get regular demonstrations of Police 'crowd control'.
I can understand the idea of having a drink on a social occasion, but the primary objective of many of the supporters seems to be to spend the afternoon and evening in alcoholic oblivion, with the associated bad behaviour, not to mention the debris of 'al fresco' dining.
Needless to say, I am NOT a football supporter.
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Re: Importance

Post by Ray »

Yes, Football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans, while rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen...

What I'm hearing though in the US is that "soccer" (I can't reconcile a game played mostly with ball in hand as "foot"ball) is really popular amongst the young, and women. Is that true?

Fred - I'll let you off. This time.... ;-)
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Importance

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Ray wrote:Fred - I'll let you off. This time.... ;-)
You sir are most gracious! And I thank you... :hide: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Importance

Post by crfriend »

Football (although us Yanks always call it "soccer") is a bit of a niche sport here, mainly followed by adults of European or South American persuasion, or the spouses of same. Our youth seem to have a bit more of an understanding of it -- mainly because it's widely played here by the younger crowd (hence the derisive term, "soccer mom" (usually driving a Chelsea tractor)). Unfortunately, it's also a major source of traumatic brain injury in the form of concussion -- and that applies to the adults who play it as well. I used to work under a "Manager" who'd gotten his chimes rung so many times his mind and judgement were severely impaired, which was entirely tragic and unnecessary. I wonder if we're going to have a cognitively-impaired generation of youngsters whom not only have the schools failed but who will also be suffering the lifelong effects of youthful repeated concussions. :(
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