A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

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Pdxfashionpioneer
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A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Gentlemen,

Be forewarned, I was on a tear today and came up with this rant. If you're not up for a rant, find something uplifting to read because this won't be such. Before you start reading please understand NONE of this is meant personally. I cite specific individuals because they have been leaders and trailblazers in our mini-movement so their quirks that I bring up have become common blindspots that I don't feel serve us at all well.

As I understand our forum it was designed to promote fashion freedom, in particular the right of men as men, as opposed to as faux women, to wear whatever they darned well pleased. In particular, items generally reserved for women; i.e., skirts and related items.

And YET, somehow there is this hurdle that rivals the Great Wall of China in many of our members' minds between their wearing skirts and wearing dresses. Why? (That is not just a rhetorical question, if someone can answer it, they will probably help themselves and God knows how many others.) A dress is just one piece of clothing that serves the function of two, a skirt and a top. If nothing else our masculine obsession with efficiency should give them the edge over skirts, but NOOOO!

Moonshadow, for instance, entitled his post on his first dress "A Dress Happened." As if it magically showed up all by itself. And then to read about his actually wearing it you could easily imagine he was afraid that it was booby-trapped, ready to go off with his first touch or certainly by the first touch of sunlight.

Darryl went on a job interview in a dress -- that takes industrial strength GUTS -- but felt compelled to cover it up with a polo shirt so at least one of the two people in the meeting would be fooled into thinking he was actually wearing a skirt. Seriously, Darryl? Do you really think that the woman you met with couldn't tell? Or that it would actually matter? It sure wasn't going to escape the interviewer's notice that you weren't in pants; why would a skirt and a polo be better than a dress in that situation?

When I looked for suggestions on what to say about our sartorial rights at the workplace, Uncle Al saw fit to chastise me for even thinking of wearing hose and heels. He even posted pictures of men's dress socks and shoes as if after 66 years on the planet and being in management for decades I hadn't figured that out for myself! The recommended changes would have ruined a great outfit. I would have looked hideous! More importantly it would have destroyed my whole point. From the shoulders up, I looked as professional as any other man. From the shoulders down my outfit was very professional, it just so happened we usually expect to see it on a woman. My point being, if both pieces were professional-looking shouldn't the sum of the parts be as well?

Caultron and others have written more posts than I care to count advising forum members, when they go out in public, to wear khaki or denim skirts because they might be mistaken for shorts. In whose reality? And why would we want to have the public make that mistake?

I read lots of stuff about what's available online as if that's the only place a guy would dare buy a skirt. For Pete's and Bill"s and Bob's sakes, there are lots of great bargains in the stores. Are we welcome there? Dare right! You look like you have money to spend, don't you? Well guess what, the store staff is there to help you do just that! They'll give you their opinion on what fits you correctly, looks good on you, "start a (fitting) room for you (at Dress Barn they even put your name on it!)" ... whatever.

If our goal is to normalize masculine men wearing skirts and dresses, then for heaven's sake, wear them with pride!!! If what we want is to diversify our wardrobes then don't stay stuck with the same boring fabrics you've always worn, GO FOR THE GUSTO! Satin!! Silk!!! Vivid colors!!!! Fer cryin' out loud! if you're going to seize the day, SEIZE THE DAY!!!!!

I understand that to get started we all have to take babysteps; I did myself. What I learned during those babysteps was that no one was going to harm me and if anything they treat me nicer. I believe it's because I must be nicer to them. That's what happens when you let the genie of your authentic self out of the bottle, you're happier and therefore tend to spread that happiness around.

So Moon, if you prefer skirts and dresses don't do anything for you, GREAT! But you didn't have to think they're something to approach with caution!

Darryl, if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound! And as you know full well, why the devil not?

Uncle Al, wear whatever you want, but don't demean someone else for wearing what they want.

Caultron, you know as well as I do despite what the last election seems to be saying about our country, when it comes to people being accepted for who and what they are, we may have a ways to go as a nation, but things are a whole lot more open in 2016 than they were in 1996 or even 2006.

And Carl, I'm sure I've said some things that you'd like to quibble about. If so, please save them for a PM so my bigger points don't get lost.

Gentlemen, start your engines!
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Gordon »

Dave, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

I have to agree with you. I've been amazed at some of the comments written on this forum that is supposed to be by and for men who want to wear what they want. And not just skirts, there is a "freestyle fashions" section after all. My recent post on guys who wear fingernail polish got lambasted by some and defended by others (thank you). I feel that if someone doesn't approve, like, appreciate what someone has posted; you should simply ignore it and move on. That is what I try to do.
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Namaste,
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by moonshadow »

My "dress" thread was an experimentation thread. It had it's triumphs and failures, and as it stands, ironic as it may seem, out of all of my skirts (and I probably have about 40 of them, I have maybe two or three dresses, one of which is a denim jumper dress and it's one of my favorite garments. In fact, I probably wear it more than anything else just because I like the way it looks and feels.

Last Saturday in fact I wore a plaid knee length dress with thigh high socks and a stripped shirt under (not over) it.

I haven't really wrote much about my attire lately because it's (the conversation, not the outfits) gotten somewhat mundane. While I tested the dress waters, I may have had some reservation, however these last several months, I've really just not concerned myself with the thoughts of others on what I wear, both here and abroad.

That Saturday dress outfit was bitchin' though. I started to selfie up, but didn't feel like it. But I literally pranced around all day in it, having my blue tooth headphones on, a favorite 80's song came on and I found myself dancing in the electronics aisle at Walmart in Marion.

Over the last several months, I've purged quite a few of my outfits. Not for any silly reasons like wanting to go back to trousers or anything, no, nothing like that, just making some closet space, and as I continue to hone my style I find some outfits just aren't getting any wears.

Love those socks from sock dreams... Thanks Kilted John for the idea! During my maiden voyage in Marion skirted I wore some rainbow (gay pride) socks.

Oh the heads... how they turned! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

As it turns out, having a case of the fashion f___k-its is a lot more fun than trying to impresses the masses. :mrgreen:

New Years Day... 12:15AM EST... Moon Shadow blessed, smudged, and called out to the Goddess of the universe under cloudy misty skies. The dress... a dress, my first one... ever. A hunter green ritual robe, ankle length, black decorative robe over than with a black cloak with red satin liner. Danced on the picnic table waving the smudge around in one hand, athame in the other, the light of the lantern on the banister.

A man's dress by any measure.

And may 2017 bring us all the blessings, the conviction, and the courage to be ourselves in the face of any and all adversity. Strength and happiness to all who should find them selves in need of such!

So be it!

-MS
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by r.m.anderson »

Well after all that - I think an Irish toast or a blessing is necessary:

'TO EACH HIS OWN AND THE DEVIL FOR US ALL' ! or something like that !

Clink - Cheers - Gulp - Ahh - that was as down right refreshing as 16 men on a dead man's chest - yo ho ho and a bottle of rum (it is not rum you bloody idiot - its Irish) !
Carry on this is not the runaway rant you were looking for - may the force be with you !

Now I await with baited breath to see what Donald is going to do compared to this runaway rant !
"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by moonshadow »

Mr. Anderson, you're post always manage to bring a chuckle from my mouth regardless of the circumstances.

8) :lol:
-Andrea
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by moonshadow »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:Moonshadow, for instance, entitled his post on his first dress "A Dress Happened." As if it magically showed up all by itself.
And by the way... it did just show up by itself. I just twitched my nose and it was.

Haven't you ever seen Bewitched? :lol:
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Ray »

Top rant, Dave! Nicely put. I'm in agreement with most of your points, although I think Caultron looks great in his utilikilts...
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Sinned »

I think that some of us have a long way to go in resetting our social conditioning centres. I know to MOH just my wearing a skirt means dressing like a woman. I have a couple of dresses, MOH bought me one to match one she bought for herself although I'm not sure why or even if she realises that she bought it. Yet I have never worn a dress outside. Why? Well although my social conditioning allows my skirts, dresses still come into the women's wear category to me. What you are saying is correct in that if we can wear a skirt we can wear a dress but I haven't reset my inner conditioning yet to allow me to do so. MOH has some nice dresses that I like, would fit and would like to wear, she doesn't know this as her conditioning would be nuclear, to me going out in a dress anyway. So I think that even though we are pushing the edges of the clothing horizon we each have a different horizon. I recognise my limitations in this respect and I admit that the first time I wear a dress outside I will probably wear a jumper over it in order to appease MY perception and to raise my comfort level. Please Dave let us highlight our successes and not carp on about our failures. We are all human, some more so than others.
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Fred in Skirts »

I have five dresses three are "T" shirt dresses one is a boob-tube type dress and the last one I bought I have placed a link else where in SC. :D I have worn one of the "T" shirt dresses out but only to the trash compactor site, so it was only a quick trip and only about 2 people saw me. :lol: I am still trying to get past the "They are only for women" stereotyping that has been impressed in my brain. It is slow progress but it is happening. :roll: Now skirts and tops I wear with abandon every where. :twisted: I don't even think about it anymore I get up I get dressed just like I used to do with mens wear, now it is skirts and tops (sometimes mens sports shirts). :wink:
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by dillon »

The process of socialization, psychologically, begins an infant. We absorb all our most formative attitudes from our early caregivers (usually parents) and our siblings and playmates. Though we can rationalize our way past the social stigmas that we are poisoned with as children, we can never escape them. The best we can do is consciously try to avoid passing them on to the next generation. So wearing a skirt is a good way to alter the cycle of socialized prejudices. If we can do that, we can also break the cycles of racism, sexism, gender-bigotry, and xenophobia. Basically, as Paul Kantner once put it, we can "steal the eggs of the dinosaur."
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Darryl »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:Gentlemen,
...
Darryl went on a job interview in a dress -- that takes industrial strength GUTS -- but felt compelled to cover it up with a polo shirt so at least one of the two people in the meeting would be fooled into thinking he was actually wearing a skirt. Seriously, Darryl? Do you really think that the woman you met with couldn't tell? Or that it would actually matter? It sure wasn't going to escape the interviewer's notice that you weren't in pants; why would a skirt and a polo be better than a dress in that situation?
...
Gentlemen, start your engines!
:D A minor point, yes, I did wear polo shirts over the RED dress. A) it was RED! and B) I didn't like the V-neck and C) yes, I still had some "conditioning" to override. It was a valuable learning experience, nevertheless.

The job interview was a "skirt-suit" built from my black Ponte knit pencil skirt over beige support hose, black socks and shoes. Likely a polo shirt on top under a Navy blazer. I'd do a better job now with my new jackets that are a tad shorter and, I think, work a bit better with skirts and dresses.

I also have a number of what Judy calls 'sheaths' that are soft and...well...slinky. :) Sorry, technical term. Using those and my turtle-neck t-shirts and a turtle-neck (light) sweater I can deal quite nicely with those V-necks and Scoop-necks. Last night I wore the white knit turtle-neck sweater under the black knit sweater dress and a Lane Bryant grey blazer with black 'leather' leggings and the usual black shoes to Steak-n-Shake, the Kroger store where, while no one said anything, one older lady was looking at my knee area as if she was trying to convince herself that that really was a dress. :shock:

The red dress was more of a 'proof of concept' to see what a dress felt like, and as it was on Clearance it was cheap. I think it is just that it is RED! We shall see.

Pretty sure that I refuse to inflict high-heels upon my feet. Might try (very) low heels or wedges if I can find a size and fit that doesn't have me sliding down into the toe area and binding my toes. Flats, most likely, if I can find the right size and a good comfortable fit.
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Greetings,

Thank you for your replies. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was criticizing any of your clothing choices, because that wasn't my intent. I wanted to break through what I perceived to be an underlying animus toward wearing dresses and other unspoken taboos. To extend what I told my friend in choir, "None of us are in a position to criticize what anyone wears." I don't want to replace one set of clothing police with another.

While I was at it I also wanted to help any of you who were open to it to cross the barriers you might have put in front of yourselves. The most oppressive jails are the ones we construct for ourselves.

Darryl,

I'm afraid I still don't understand what you're calling a sheath. To me, and most of the catalogs I look at, a sheath is a relatively straight, rather tight-fitting dress, usually sleeveless though not necessarily. Think of a sheath for a knife, except in this case for a human body.
While we're at it, red is one of my favorite colors too.

Dennis,

I'm not sure how any of us can be more human than another, but I'm pretty sure I know what you're getting at. :wink:
Btw, perhaps the best way to find out why your wife bought you that dress is to some evening suggest the two of you changing into your matching dresses. It probably wouldn't hurt to preface the suggestion with a glass or two of wine. It just seems to me she bought you that dress to throw a bridge halfway across the chasm and it would serve the two of you well to use it to connect and (hopefully) have a constructive conversation on the topic. If it doesn't work, blame me for. She'd have to cross the North Atlantic and then the North American continent to do me any harm.

I'm sure there's plenty more that's been said that deserves a response and plenty more I've said that needs clarification but it's 4 AM here so I'll quit before I say something stupid.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Sinned »

Dave the human phrase was a throwaway humorous quip much in the vein of the Animal Farm mantra about some pigs being more equal than others. As to the dress I will suggest it one relaxed evening but I feel like I am walking on eggshells here. Incidentally we bought a long-sleeved light nylon swing dress predominantly blue with red candy canes on it. I intended it for me and at a quid, yes, a quid MOH snapped it up. When we got home she tried it on and she looked good enough to eat in it. So I guess I have lost it to her. I did say that if she didn't wear it I would claim it back, though. If I get chance I'll get a photo.

Yes I think I am not alone in having to overcome 60 years of social conditioning. It's hard and the erosion process is slow. I may not ever convince MOH as she shows such resistance often to the skirt but not other pieces of clothing. Oh, well, c'est la vie. :?
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Darryl »

pdxfashionpioneer

I'm not sure either. Judy is from Arkansas, way back in the sticks and its probably a local term....or just her term....or something.

Anything that is thin, light and cool that can be worn under a top to cover up...ummmm....assets....you might want to keep hidden. And also managing to look good...or stylish...with the combination. If the topic comes up I'll try to find the roots, just out of interest.
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Re: A Runaway, not to be mistaken for Runway, Rant

Post by Disaffected.citizen »

Google, Wikipedia and an online dictionary are our friends here:

A sheath is a close fitting dress, according to many including Wikipedia.

sheath
ʃiːθ/
noun
- a close-fitting cover for the blade of a knife or sword.
synonyms: scabbard, case
"he slid the gleaming sword out of its sheath"
- a woman's close-fitting dress.
noun: sheath dress

Examples of which might be: this or this.
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