Dating Rituals

[Emerald Witch]

I'm sorry I don't have time to answer each person's post all at once today. I'm not trying to pass over anyone, but my time online at the library is just about up. I'll try to catch up later!

[Pythos]

Let's see. The first person I asked, was an Asian girl I really liked in high school. I asked her out to the prom. She responded enthusiastically. But the next day, she informed me that it was off because her parents did not want her going out with someone of non-asian descent. Scratch one.

The next was a mutual action. Unfortunately unknowing to me this was a game on the part of the girl. This lead to a rather heart wrenching disaster of a relationship, that I was too stupid to abandon. Scratch two.

Then in college this girl I did some group work with showed interest in my flying, so I asked if she would like to go flying sometime. She said she would think about it. Well several days passed, when finally I asked her what her decision was to which she responded "well, to me it sounds like a date, and I am just not interested in that with someone like you".

Scratch three.

for me being forward has resulted in 100% failure.

I have had women approach me, and have had some good times (no serious intimacy though), which was fine cause aside from one, these ladies had some hidden issues.

Because of this wonderful average, I have just gotten out of the whole deal. Having only one of my relationships being one I would want to continue just says to me, I am not meant for someone in my life at this time. My being painfully shy and introverted also does not help.

I hope to have something similar to Cf's experience happen, but to be honest if it doesn't, I'm fine with that.

[Since1982]

My being painfully shy and introverted also does not help.

Any non-Asian MAN that can wear an Asian Cheongsam to a wedding is NOT introverted OR shy unless he stayed in the outside bushes the entire wedding.

Sale site definition of a cheongsam is a woman's dress. Of course it's only a woman's dress if a woman is wearing it. If a man is, then it's a man's dress. A man's similar garment is the Changsam.

WDA-6069.jpg

[Emerald Witch]

I'm sorry for your negative experiences, Pythos. It's too bad that such a few disappointments could feel painful enough to make you want never to approach a woman again. I'm sure you bring a lot to a relationship.

Still, the average of the answers I've gotten so far seems to be pretty standard -- men do not, in fact, ask women out as much as they think they do. They may allow a good opportunity to pass because of their mortification of potential failure. Many men, it seems, are content to allow the women of their world to control the dating proccess, either by allowing the women to do the initial approach, or by expecting the woman to play a flirtatious game of "C'mon, Big Boy! I LIKE you, already! ASK ME OUT!!"

It would seem from personal experience that even the second option is rarely successful. Men who are terrified of rejection might be too willing to believe that flirtatious behavior is mere friendliness, and still not take the risk.

Contrary to stereotypical belief, therefore, I am tentatively concluding that women ARE in control of the dating process. That means I'm not going to feel guilty anymore. Regardless of the stereotype, if it is in fact a woman's job to control everything and take the risk of rejection and boldly approach someone she likes to get a date to happen, then that's what I'm going to do. I understand that there is a certain amount of embarrassment that comes along with that, when you mistakenly ask someone who can't or wouldn't like to date you. However, I'm more interested in the potential long-term benefits of finding a good relationship than I am afraid of the short-term embarassment.

Next time I see someone I like, I'm darn well going to approach them and lay on my best opening line. Here's how I see it going:

Me: (bright smile) "Hi, there!"
Cute Guy: "Hi. How ya doin?"
Me: (encouraged by polysyllabic answer) "I'm having a great day." (random chat follows, to see if he wants to chat)
If answers are brief and clipped, I take the hint and move on. If pleasant chatting ensues, like he's got all day...
Me: "I'm really glad I met you. Would you like to go get some coffee to continue our chat?"

If he's free right then, then we have our first date! We get to know each other a bit over coffee. If he's unavailable, he'll say no. If he's available and interested, but in a hurry, he'll either ask for my number or he's too obtuse for me really to want to date anyway.

[r1g0r]

emmy,

my impression is that the guy who manages to make you happy will be a very lucky individual.

LAKOAYPP

[Pythos]

This is something about that wedding party where I wore the Chinese gown, that I learned that kinda upset me.

Following the weekend of the wedding, my room mate learned at her work, that there were several women she works with that found my outfit quite something, and they wanted to approach me and say so....but they felt it would be....OUT OF PLACE for them to do.

They were shy themselves, and felt they could only tell my room mate the next time they saw her.

So I have to ask. When these interested parties saw me, did they like the image they saw, and did not want to disturb it? Did they fear I would just ignore them? I am just so lost when it comes to this incident. If it seems like I am grasping at straws for reasons, it is because indeed I am.

My most successful relationship was the result of the woman walking up to me on halloween when I was dressed as a black cat. She found me extremely attractive, and made the approach that night. She had known me for a while, but had only seen me in drab clothing (most of the time I was helping my friend with his truck, and she was visiting his wife at the time). When she learned of my alternative style, and my interests she and I really hit it off. I however was too uncertain about the relationship's integrity, due to the fact she lived several hundred miles away, and came around every weekend. So yea it was a romantic relationship, but only 3rd base reached (sorry if too much detail), which was my decision, which is really odd for a guy, but there we are, I am an odd ball:) Her job pulled her even farther away, and the relationship sunk. Which sucked cause she liked me as I was. She loved to watch ME get dressed in my stuff, especially my catsuits. When we were getting ready for my Dad's 50th birthday party, she showed disappointment that I was going to wear normal clothing. She convinced me to wear my style, which I did after quite a bit of encouragement which included her grabbing my lace sided leggings and puttting them on for her outfit. Aside from our appearance we acted with the max decorum, the result, we were very well accepted, and got compliments on our styles.

Sorry off topic there.

Back to the wedding incident. I wish those women had had the courage to come up to me and say "my god you look hot", or "You pull that look off really well", or flat out "what are you doing later?" But THEY were too shy, and I was clueless.

[Emerald Witch]

...Following the weekend of the wedding, my room mate learned at her work, that there were several women she works with that found my outfit quite something, and they wanted to approach me and say so....but they felt it would be....OUT OF PLACE for them to do.

So I have to ask. When these interested parties saw me, did they like the image they saw, and did not want to disturb it? Did they fear I would just ignore them? I am just so lost when it comes to this incident. If it seems like I am grasping at straws for reasons, it is because indeed I am.
...
I wish those women had had the courage to come up to me and say "my god you look hot", or "You pull that look off really well", or flat out "what are you doing later?" But THEY were too shy, and I was clueless.

Most people are not yet familiar with the sight of a man wearing a dress (or anything else they think of as "female"). One of the biggest standard insults you can give any man is to imply he's girly, so when people see a man who seems to be "girly" right up front (in any way) people are just confused. They don't know how to behave. They're wondering if they're supposed to compliment you on your pretty dress, or if you'd be offended for them to think it was a DRESS, when obviously it is a traditional Kasauki from the highlands of your native Mandavia. They don't know if you're gay, or a transgender, or lost a bet, or you're on a dare, or what. Not wanting to give offense, they just stay silent.

[Kris]

Most people are not yet familiar with the sight of a man wearing a dress (or anything else they think of as "female"). One of the biggest standard insults you can give any man is to imply he's girly, so when people see a man who seems to be "girly" right up front (in any way) people are just confused. They don't know how to behave. They're wondering if they're supposed to compliment you on your pretty dress, or if you'd be offended for them to think it was a DRESS, when obviously it is a traditional Kasauki from the highlands of your native Mandavia. They don't know if you're gay, or a transgender, or lost a bet, or you're on a dare, or what. Not wanting to give offense, they just stay silent.

I think you hit that right on the head, EW.
Most people are polite and non-confrontational. They also have an either/or mental model of gender, and have trouble figuring out what appears to them to be a gender presentation somewhere in-between. So not knowing what to think or say, they avoid any possible offense by not addressing the issue.

Kris

[Pythos]

Well, no matter how true that is....It is still weak.

[crfriend]

Well, no matter how true that is....It is still weak.

From a strictly engineering perspective, yes, but one needs to recall that social behaviours are not governed by the hard-and-fast rules of logic and mathematics. That fact does make "The Game" difficult for many individuals, but it's not necessarily a show-stopper. Personally, I suspect that this is a good thing; if I had to deal with blunt criticism of everything I did from folks I don't necessarily know, I suspect the results would not be pretty.

From my personal experiences, it comes down to being happy and comfortable with who you are -- even if at the moment you happen to be a miserable SOB -- and don't force things or read too much into what might not be there. Ultimately, if you're not happy in and of yourself, that'll project to those around you; if you're happy with who you are, even if you're situationally miserable at the moment, that'll come through to an observer. Don't confuse the two.