An Interesting Conversation

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An Interesting Conversation

Postby sapphire » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:02 pm

Thought you might enjoy the following.

For the past few months, I've been helping a friend who has been very ill and now is now improving.

My friend had an obligation to hold a class relating to the cat fancy. We did hold the class and Carl attended. Carl, of course, wore a skirt, a dress shirt, a vest, and tights. A skirted man was something new for Lauren, but she went with it.

Last night we talked about putting the subject matter(clerking) into practice in a real show setting.

Lauren would like for Carl to clerk at an upcoming show. She is also adamant that he wear a skirt. She was so impressed with with how attractive and professional Carl looked. Then this happened:

Lauren: What was Carl wearing? A kilt?
Me: No. Carl was wearing a skirt.
Lauren: A skirt?!? Where did he get a skirt?
Me: It's my skirt.
Laren: No Way!!!
Me: Way!!!
Lauren: But he looks so masculine.
Me: Well, he's wearing the skirt as a man.
Lauren: He sure is. He looks great, very masculine, very professional.
Me: You can't have him.
Lauren: (laughs)
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby Uncle Al » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:39 pm

I won't quote the whole post, but I like it!
This may be the secret to getting men in skirts accepted by the 'main-stream-public'.
Men want to impress/please their wives, and women in general.

The old saying still holds true,

If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!

Women have a greater influnce on men than most men will admit to.

Skirtchaser is trying to get her husband to 'go public' with his skirt wearing.
She, I'm sure, will prevail-as most women do.

Saphire is a major supporter of Carl. Now it appears that she is having
to 'fight off' other women who are interested in 'her man'.

Maybe it's not the 'men' who need to be influenced, but the women in their lives.
Impress the women that men look 'hot' in a skirt/kilt. :red:
They, in turn, will want their 'mates' to look their best!
The wives are the main purchasers of the home, so they
will want to shop for skirts/kilts for 'their man'.

This 'concept' may not be far from the truth. Women play a major role in their
spouses lives. Who better to get 'converted' than the women of the family.

OK-That's my opinion--Any others :?: Agree :?: Disagree :?:

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-2020(and the beat goes on ;) )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby crfriend » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:41 pm

sapphire wrote:[...]He was wearing a skirt.[...]

Lauren: But he looks so masculine.
Me: Well, he's wearing the skirt as a man.
Lauren: He sure is. He looks great, very masculine, very professional.
Me: You can't have him.
Lauren: (laughs)


Here's some context, as best as I can recall it. The outfit was one of Sapphire's silk skirts -- the bluish-green one -- worn with sheer tights, my other usual accoutrements, and kicked up with a necktie and the chain for a pocket watch. Atop all that, I also had the fancy bow in my hair (washed the day previously; washing the same day is an invite to disaster). I obviously hit the nail on the head, because the observed look was precisely what I wanted to convey. I'll see if I can completely recreate the look and get a photograph of it. (Note that my look violates ChrisM's very useful "rule of one" guideline rather handily but was pulled off by the gravitas of the entire ensemble (I still can't bring myself to use the word "outfit").

As far as the "You can't have him" quip goes, I'd have to be absolutely, certifiably, daft to run off with somebody else. It's just not going to happen.

Uncle Al wrote:Maybe it's not the 'men' who need to be influenced, but the women in their lives.

That's a common "wailing point" in the overall equation -- the support, or lack thereof, of our partners, spouses, and love interests. Whilst we (as blokes) seem to lament the lack of support and understanding our SOs show, it seems we're also failing to project a compelling image to counteract the perception of negativity that our SOs take from the notion of a bloke in a skirt.

I think the game can be won, but I suspect it's going to take a whole range of looks encompassing everything from completely casual to highly polished and professional. There's also the notion of "Just Wear It" as well; if we're too timid to venture from our own backyards, we're not going to be seen, and if we're not seen, the notion of guys in skirts is not going to get any local commentary or consideration (serious or otherwise).

Enough rambling. I need to go buy beer before the 'fridge runs dry!
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby AMM » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:02 am

Uncle Al wrote:Maybe it's not the 'men' who need to be influenced, but the women in their lives....

OK-That's my opinion--Any others :?: Agree :?: Disagree :?:

Disagree.

With all due respect, this sounds to me like a way of blaming women for men's own cowardice. "I can't wear a skirt because the Woman In My Life is insufficiently supportive."

It's one thing to say that if the Woman In Your Life strenuously objects to your wearing a skirt, you should respect her feelings and try to work something out. But, assuming she doesn't object, why do you need her encouragement and flattery to go out and do what you want to do? Why does it have to be her problem? Isn't part of being a Grown-Up being able to do things without always needing someone to pat us on the head and call us good boys? Facing our fears, the disapproving blogs, and all the other things that skirt-wearing men have to deal with is our problem, not women's.

I say, if you're not old enough to wear a skirt without an official seal of approval from the opposite sex, you're not old enough to wear a skirt at all.
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby Sasquatch » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:10 am

AMM wrote:It's one thing to say that if the Woman In Your Life strenuously objects to your wearing a skirt, you should respect her feelings and try to work something out. But, assuming she doesn't object, why do you need her encouragement and flattery to go out and do what you want to do? Why does it have to be her problem? Isn't part of being a Grown-Up being able to do things without always needing someone to pat us on the head and call us good boys? Facing our fears, the disapproving blogs, and all the other things that skirt-wearing men have to deal with is our problem, not women's.

I say, if you're not old enough to wear a skirt without an official seal of approval from the opposite sex, you're not old enough to wear a skirt at all.


Amen, Reverend, you hit that nail on the head. I think a lot of us have spouses that either don't encourage our choice or perhaps actively discourage it. If you have the latter, you've got a problem. If you have the former, then there has to be compromise. Why would we allow our indulgences to cause real anxiety or embarassment to the people we love most? Particularly in situations that are really important to them? But, in turn, they ought to be prepared to let us be us in situations we choose. We have to be assertive enough to wear what we like but wise enough to recognize when we, perhaps, shouldn't.

Sasq
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby Uncle Al » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:47 pm

Sasquatch wrote:
AMM wrote:It's one thing to say that if the Woman In Your Life strenuously objects
to your wearing a skirt, you should respect her feelings and try to work something out.
But, assuming she doesn't object, why do you need her encouragement and
flattery to go out and do what you want to do?
.....


Amen, Reverend, you hit that nail on the head. I think a lot of us have spouses
that either don't encourage our choice or perhaps actively discourage it.......

Sasq


AMM & Sasq;

Both of you have hit on similar things. To many women can't comprehend a
man in a skirt. A kilt they think is for special occasions. Too many men don't want
to 'rock-the-boat' in their family relationships. So they will not bring up the fact that
they prefer skirts/kilts over pants, in every day activities. I would take a guess
that IF the women of the family were to be convinced that a man in a skirt/kilt is
a great thing, they would encourage their men to try a skirt/kilt.


sasq wrote:Why would we allow our indulgences to cause real anxiety or embarassment to
the people we love most? Particularly in situations that are really important to them?
But, in turn, they ought to be prepared to let us be us in situations we choose.

We have to be assertive enough to wear what we like but wise enough to recognize
when we, perhaps, shouldn't.


Sasq


This phrase says a lot..."We have to be assertive enough to wear what we like
but wise enough to recognize when we, perhaps, shouldn't."


This comes back to the point of getting the women of the family accepting the concept
of a man in a skirt is an OK thing. Then we would not have to be assertive in our choices.

This is not a one-way street, that men don't have the courage to wear what they want.
They want to please their wives. Men have given up a lot of their desires for the sake of
the marriage. The 'flames of their desires need to be rekindled' and what better way to
rekindle these desires, is the encouragement of their wives.

This becomes the 'two-way street'. Openning the lines of communication between the
husband and wife, or significant other, will (to use an idea from Skip)
'put the cards on the table'. Open communicaton will allow 'both parties' of the relationship
to voice their thoughts and concerns. This will help each other to understand the
'desires' of the man, and the 'fears' of the wife in the family.
Then 'they' can work out compromises which will bennefit both 'parties'.

My wife does not object to my skirt wearing around the house. It is when we are going
somewhere that her objections appear. Slowly, very slowly, she is coming around to the
idea that a man in a skirt is OK. When I wear a kilt, she doesn't complain, much.
She prefers me in trousers, but accepts me in a kilt. She understands the health bennefits
of my kilt/skirt wearing, but still fears what the public reactions will be to see a man in a skirt.

Thus, convincing the women of our lives that a man in a skirt is OK, then I feel that
half of our battle is over. The second half is the promotion of skirts for men. Getting
the concept out to 'main-stream society' through clothing designers.
Many of the 'designers' are so stuck in their ways that the concept of a man in a skirt
is alien to them. When a man wears a skirt, do antenna pop out of their heads?
Do horns or a lizzard-like tail grow out of their body? Do they grow three arms?
No-They are still men, just wearing a skirt.

OK - If it appears that I'm rambling, I appologize. I've had four phone calls
as I was trying to compose this. So far I've been at this piece for an hour and a half.
I get a decent thought, then a phone call, then the thought is gone.
Again, I appologize for my writing technique but these ideas need to
be considered when making any descisions which will affect one's family.


Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-2020(and the beat goes on ;) )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby Since1982 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:20 pm

Uncle AL said: I get a decent thought, then a phone call, then the thought is gone.
Hmm, thinking Alzheimers here....I so do understand the problem, as I am experiencing it also. Think Ginko. Lots of it. My mom died from complications of Alzheimers, worries me a lot. (she was 84, be nice if I could get anywhere close to that).. :mrgreen:
I had to remove this signature as it was being used on Twitter. This is my OPINION, you NEEDN'T AGREE.

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I've been skirted part time since 1972 and full time since 2005. http://skirts4men.myfreeforum.org/
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby crfriend » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:49 pm

Since1982 wrote:
Uncle AL said: I get a decent thought, then a phone call, then the thought is gone.
Hmm, thinking Alzheimers here....

Actually, what we're seeing here is a very natural, very human, problem with interrupts. People tend not to be good "multi-taskers"; it takes time, and energy, to switch from one task -- especially if it involves creative energy -- to another, and it costs still more energy to switch back again if the interrupt was non-trivial.

In computer terms, this is known as a "context switch" where an interrupt preempts whatever is going on, and to successfully restart what was happening at the time of the interrupt everything that was active at the time must be saved off to someplace safe; continuing on after the interrupt necessitates locating the saved state (what was going on before the interrupt) and restoring it in its entirety so the original task can resume. It's expensive even in computer terms, and computers are vastly better at it than humans.

Personally, I find that if I'm interrupted from creative activity more than once every 15 minutes or so, I need to just give that activity up until the interrupts quiet down. Al's four in an hour and a half approaches that limit, and his limit is likely different than mine. There are days at work where I can get ten or 12 interrupts in the span of an hour; nothing substantial happens on those days.

And, speaking of interrupts, I just took a hard one which destroyed the context for this post so I'll just drop it here.
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby SkirtDude » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:45 pm

I definitly need a bigger interrupt stack :).

The department of crack building maintainance has been hammer-drilling, pounding and making all variety of noises on the roof over my office the last few weeks. Tonight I was so fed up with it I left early and went shopping at the Evil Empire Big Box Store (TM).
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby Peter v » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:10 am

Uncle Al wrote:
Sasquatch wrote:
AMM wrote:It's one thing to say that if the Woman In Your Life strenuously objects
to your wearing a skirt, you should respect her feelings and try to work something out.
But, assuming she doesn't object, why do you need her encouragement and
flattery to go out and do what you want to do?
.....


Amen, Reverend, you hit that nail on the head. I think a lot of us have spouses
that either don't encourage our choice or perhaps actively discourage it.......

Sasq


AMM & Sasq;

Both of you have hit on similar things. To many women can't comprehend a
man in a skirt. A kilt they think is for special occasions. Too many men don't want
to 'rock-the-boat' in their family relationships. So they will not bring up the fact that
they prefer skirts/kilts over pants, in every day activities. I would take a guess
that IF the women of the family were to be convinced that a man in a skirt/kilt is
a great thing, they would encourage their men to try a skirt/kilt.


sasq wrote:Why would we allow our indulgences to cause real anxiety or embarassment to
the people we love most? Particularly in situations that are really important to them?
But, in turn, they ought to be prepared to let us be us in situations we choose.

We have to be assertive enough to wear what we like but wise enough to recognize
when we, perhaps, shouldn't.


Sasq


This phrase says a lot..."We have to be assertive enough to wear what we like
but wise enough to recognize when we, perhaps, shouldn't."


This comes back to the point of getting the women of the family accepting the concept
of a man in a skirt is an OK thing. Then we would not have to be assertive in our choices.

This is not a one-way street, that men don't have the courage to wear what they want.
They want to please their wives. Men have given up a lot of their desires for the sake of
the marriage. The 'flames of their desires need to be rekindled' and what better way to
rekindle these desires, is the encouragement of their wives.

This becomes the 'two-way street'. Openning the lines of communication between the
husband and wife, or significant other, will (to use an idea from Skip)
'put the cards on the table'. Open communicaton will allow 'both parties' of the relationship
to voice their thoughts and concerns. This will help each other to understand the
'desires' of the man, and the 'fears' of the wife in the family.
Then 'they' can work out compromises which will bennefit both 'parties'.

My wife does not object to my skirt wearing around the house. It is when we are going
somewhere that her objections appear. Slowly, very slowly, she is coming around to the
idea that a man in a skirt is OK. When I wear a kilt, she doesn't complain, much.
She prefers me in trousers, but accepts me in a kilt. She understands the health bennefits
of my kilt/skirt wearing, but still fears what the public reactions will be to see a man in a skirt.

Thus, convincing the women of our lives that a man in a skirt is OK, then I feel that
half of our battle is over. The second half is the promotion of skirts for men. Getting
the concept out to 'main-stream society' through clothing designers.
Many of the 'designers' are so stuck in their ways that the concept of a man in a skirt
is alien to them. When a man wears a skirt, do antenna pop out of their heads?
Do horns or a lizzard-like tail grow out of their body? Do they grow three arms?
No-They are still men, just wearing a skirt.

OK - If it appears that I'm rambling, I appologize. I've had four phone calls
as I was trying to compose this. So far I've been at this piece for an hour and a half.
I get a decent thought, then a phone call, then the thought is gone.
Again, I appologize for my writing technique but these ideas need to
be considered when making any descisions which will affect one's family.


Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX


What ever you do, I believe that you should never say "take all the time in the world, I will always be your complient slave". :? :roll:
If she, your partner, then says, I will never be completely at ease with you doing that, even though you fully stand behind what you are doing, and do not have any real fears or inhibitions aboout doing that, where does that leave you? Up sh it creek. :shock: :? In a barbed wire canoe.

If wearing a skirt and everything that had lead to that, everything that it entails, is not really important, then it doesn't matter what she decices, you are not prepaired to stand up for yourself.

Realising how important it is for YOUR further existence as THE PERSON YOU REALLY ARE, is the most important thing to do. Then you can act accordingly. Never forget that you have the right to individual growth, and that your partner should follow and support you. You are not doing it merely for the fun. It is something that you cannot deny, something that lies deeper than the thickness of the skirt material. There is more to it than that. That which makes up "that which is more than" must not be denied you, don't deny it to yourself by suggesting that your partner has all saying power over your life.

If it means anything to you at all, there must be an altimatum set, otherwise there may / will be an uending stalemate wherein you on your own accoord willingly placed your future, your freedom, your skirt wearing in her hands, possibly indefinitely withholding you from doing anything out of the box.

And to which time span will you let her decision making take? I say where possible, ( don't do anything absolutely crazy) give the partner a short period to get used to the idea, to the fact, that you have made your choice, to be a free man, doing what is inevitable, wearing skirts. That is what you will do and are doing. The fact that you then actually do it, will prove that most if any fears from her are infact ungrounded, and that this is the course that you are taking and she may follow.

Some things are decided by the one or the other in a partnership, wearing of skirts by the man is decided by him, not her. especially when HE does it in face of all fears, doing the inevitable, not needing her consent. Actually being "the man of the house".

Who among us has a lifetime to wait? And who wants to wait?
Only once the path has been paved, and walked by the millions, may it be easier to convince the partner that men wearing skirts is not such an issue. But even then, there is no guarantee that individual women (partners) will be influenced positively by those that have gone before, and will still be non complying. That means that YOU are the person that makes the decision, You are the one who says this is how it is going to be, and is.

have respect, but don't be a slave.
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby Since1982 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:25 am

Peter said: That means that YOU are the person that makes the decision, You are the one who says this is how it is going to be, and is.


There you are back in that surreal world you live in...About the time HE says how it's going to be and SHE is going to have to accept it, SHE gets a lawyer and attaches everything HE ever owned, wanted to own or thought about owning. I can see a court now telling a wife that she MUST accept whatever her HUSBAND wants because HE'S the one who wears the skirts in THIS family. Maybe in Stiens in the Netherlands that's the way it is, it sure ain't that way in the rest of the known world. :bom:
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby Milfmog » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:15 am

Peter,

I NEVER give ultimatums (ultimata?) to my wife. If we disagree about something we sit and talk it through and if my wearing skirts made her really uncomfortable I would stop doing it when she was around. Quite simply her happiness is far more important to me than my choice to wear a skirt. I guess it is all about priorities and for me my wife and her happiness is my number one concern.

I guess we are all different and you are as entitled to your view as I am to mine, so we will have to agree to disagree about how to approach a significant other about our clothing choices.

Have fun,


Ian.
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby Mipi » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:50 am

100% agree with Ian (Milfmog)!
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby Since1982 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:59 am

Back when I had a significant Other, I always cared how she felt about everything, fortunately, she not only liked me in skirts but sewed new ones for me on a regular basis. The only time in 9 years I gave her ultimatii was when she robbed me thru paypal. Too bad too, if she'd just asked to borrow the 4k I'd probably have loaned it to her, after all I'd, back in 1999 loaned her 7k to move from Nevada to Florida and she'd paid all that back. I could live with her keeping my house like a pigsty, smoking to the point all my mirrors couldn't give reflections for the smoke on them and putting up with 4 greyhounds and 5 full sized cockatoos and parrots in her room, but robbing me was that proverbial straw...I still wish she'd not done that.. Even as a thief, I miss her.

I'm not sure of ultimatii...but viruses are virii and octopuses are octopii..who knows :)
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Re: An Interesting Conversation

Postby crfriend » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:38 pm

Common wisdom seems to state that the issuance of ultimatums in any sort of equal relationship is counterproductive at best and outright destructive at worst. Following that logic, one can also infer that behaving in a selfish manner will bring the same consequences.

Ian said it wonderfully, and I think his commentary deserves a re-read before one takes a concrete immovable stance on something. A healthy relationship is vastly more important than what rags one decides to adorn himself with. Do you not trust your life-partner to be able to conduct a rational discussion on something? If that's the case, you have vastly larger fish to fry than any squabbles over something as silly as clothing.

Relatives are another matter. We finally buried my dad yesterday, and the cemetery (where he's the 4th generation to be interred) is about a hundred miles distant. I didn't particularly like the notion of wearing tr*users for the drive and opted to wear one of my skirts (the long black tiered one) instead. Not a word was said about it, either: my two aunts were probably too shocked to utter anything (both were wearing pants). The rest of the rig was my blue waistcoat, white dress shirt, blue-patterned necktie, black opaque tights (it was cold and raw), and black dress shoes. Sapphire wore a black skirt, black opaque tights, and a really nice brown art-deco blouse.

An interesting side-story was that I also wore my grandmother's father's late 1800s pocket-watch (he's buried in the plot; I thought it'd make a nice connecting statement). That timepiece has a habit of stopping when it's in my pocket; it stayed running perfectly all day yesterday. I wonder if it knew something I didn't.
Last edited by crfriend on Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrrected the geneology
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