Symbols of power!

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
renesm1
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Re: Symbols of power!

Post by renesm1 »

Grok wrote:
Sinned wrote: they all said, basically, that they are not against men wearing skirts but they would be horrified if THEIR man was to try and wear one. :!:
Going from the theoretical to the personal, and when you get to personal it becomes an emotional argument.
Yes, that!!! THAT COMPLETELY! You have hit the nail on the head.

It suddenly becomes emotional and all logic flies out of the window, so arguing becomes somewhat pointless. I don't know what the solution to this is really. How does one address the emotional aspect of this? It's a weakness for a lot of men to deal with emotions of others (and themselves).

Does anyone here have any thoughts on how to deal with emotional arguments? I'm all ears on this one!!!
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Sinned
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Re: Symbols of power!

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ren, I have been hitting my head against a brick wall over this for over 4 years and I know others have for a lot longer. Those affected don't seem to have come up with a solution and Carl and others have shed some serious light on this issue in other threads. Sometimes I seem to be making progress and other times it seems that nothing has changed. I think that I'm in the situation of wearing a skirt whenever I want indoors but accept that she may never accompany me outside when I am wearing a skirt. When she isn't around I wear a skirt outside whenever I can. Unless a major breakthrough comes I now just remain quiet as I don't want to just seem to be moaning.
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Symbols of power!

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Dennis, I really feel for you.

I hope this is helpful, but I have to qualify this response with my track record, I have 3 failed marriages and no SO and you have a decades-long marriage to your credit. You know your wife and I've never met her. So take the following for what it's worth (you paid nothing) and with a judicious amount of salt.

Have you ever tried asking your wife what it is that concerns her about your wearing skirts and just intently listened for the sole purpose of understanding her and her point of view? If you're like me every time she's tried to explain herself, you argued with each of her points as she was just getting started with explaining them and you just wound up fighting. What I'm suggesting is that you just listen, probe until the two of you are satisfied that you have gotten to the root of that concern or fear or disappointment and then moved on to the next item and written them down so you could give the whole bunch of them some thought before you came back to answer them. You might even start the conversation by saying, "I want to take a different tack on what concerns you about my wearing skirts." And tell her you're not going to respond until you've had a chance to think about what she says, the next day at the earliest.
Doing that will help the two of you stray on track, because with a build-up like that any assertive person will cut you off the first you try to argue.

If this approach makes sense to you and seems like something you could actually do, give it a shot. I have the feeling you have tried everything. If it doesn't make any sense to you, go back to my 2nd sentence.

Good luck my friend!
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Sinned
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Re: Symbols of power!

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Dave, your suggestion is good and if you know me then I'm not confrontational and I don't really argue so that isn't really an issue. The investment is 42 years on Valentine's Day so nothing insignificant. And mostly I buy a Valentines Day card and an Anniversary card. I have asked her and all I have got is that when I am wearing a skirt all she can think is that I look like a woman. Which must be an internal, idealised version since women don't really wear skirts so much any more. So. I have a couple of weeks holiday starting tomorrow when we will be together most of the time and hopefully doing things together. Normally holidays involve being with other people and we don't really get time alone. It will give me time to seriously ask some searching questions, listen, as you say, and try and get to the root of why the objections. Ideally I would be wearing a skirt at least half the time and but in any case certainly as much of the time that I can get away with and it would be nice for her to accompany me out at least once whilst I am wearing a skirt to see what a lack of reaction there is. But if it doesn't happen then I won't be unduly disappointed about it and irritated with her. I would like to get it sorted and maintain the good relationship that we generally have and feel that the next two weeks is the ideal opportunity. I won't post increments, only breakthroughs and insights. Thanks.

Late addition: I would like MOH to take a series of photographs of me in various skirted ensembles one day soon, look at them on the compooter and talk about them, criticise or applaud the look and make suggestions to maintain the "masculine" ( or at least tone down her perceived feminine perception ) and hence use this as an introduction to our discussions. That would also give me some more looks to post here.
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Re: Symbols of power!

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Hi Dennis,

I'm glad that my input helped you come up with a strategy that feels right to you. I feel it sounds very.

Please let us all know how it comes out.

Best of luck. I know I'm not alone in wishing you the best.
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Re: Symbols of power!

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Sinned wrote:Dave, your suggestion is good and if you know me then I'm not confrontational and I don't really argue so that isn't really an issue. The investment is 42 years on Valentine's Day so nothing insignificant. And mostly I buy a Valentines Day card and an Anniversary card. I have asked her and all I have got is that when I am wearing a skirt all she can think is that I look like a woman. Which must be an internal, idealised version since women don't really wear skirts so much any more. So. I have a couple of weeks holiday starting tomorrow when we will be together most of the time and hopefully doing things together. Normally holidays involve being with other people and we don't really get time alone. It will give me time to seriously ask some searching questions, listen, as you say, and try and get to the root of why the objections. Ideally I would be wearing a skirt at least half the time and but in any case certainly as much of the time that I can get away with and it would be nice for her to accompany me out at least once whilst I am wearing a skirt to see what a lack of reaction there is. But if it doesn't happen then I won't be unduly disappointed about it and irritated with her. I would like to get it sorted and maintain the good relationship that we generally have and feel that the next two weeks is the ideal opportunity. I won't post increments, only breakthroughs and insights. Thanks.

Late addition: I would like MOH to take a series of photographs of me in various skirted ensembles one day soon, look at them on the compooter and talk about them, criticise or applaud the look and make suggestions to maintain the "masculine" ( or at least tone down her perceived feminine perception ) and hence use this as an introduction to our discussions. That would also give me some more looks to post here.
When I've seen photos of you in a skirt, you definitely don't look anything like a woman to me!!! Does the place where you live have a lot of masculine-looking women???
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Re: Symbols of power!

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rem, you are funny and your comment brought a laugh from me. I work in a store with a national presence and see LOTS and lots of women as we sell the type of products that would appeal to them. I see so many of them wearing jeans, leggings or trousers that the odd dress or skirt becomes so much more noticeable. So applying MOH's logic then I should see men and sometimes those with short hair do sometimes appear masculine looking. Even MOH wears leggings exclusively.

Yes Dave, any success and I will let you know.
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Re: Symbols of power!

Post by Gusto10 »

Sinned wrote:rem, you are funny and your comment brought a laugh from me. I work in a store with a national presence and see LOTS and lots of women as we sell the type of products that would appeal to them. I see so many of them wearing jeans, leggings or trousers that the odd dress or skirt becomes so much more noticeable. So applying MOH's logic then I should see men and sometimes those with short hair do sometimes appear masculine looking. Even MOH wears leggings exclusively.

Yes Dave, any success and I will let you know.
Leggings = Long John's without sipper.

Back to the remark of women stating that skirts would be fine but for their man.
One dat there was such debate going on on a fashion site. The debate died after I posted the question whether the ladies who would deny their husband the joy of skirt wearing, even if such would be just for some bedroom fun, would hang their trousers in the wardrobe.
Wardrobe brings me to the French word Robe, which is derived from enrober, which means encircling something in full length.
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Re: Symbols of power!

Post by Grok »

As I recall, I once posted about the hoops a man has to jump through to be of interest to women.

The first hoop? A man should appear to conform to traditional masculinity.

Generally, wearing one pipe instead of two is too nonconformist in the eyes of many women. And even if an individual woman will agree (in an intellectual sense) that men should be allowed to wear skirts, if her own man should try a skirt it becomes personal, and therefore an emotional issue. Logic does not win emotional arguments.

Some women will accept a man in a kilt, if she deems that garment as an expression of chutzpah. But for all too many women even a kilt is unacceptable.
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Re: Symbols of power!

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Since I am currently without a wife or girl friend. I look at things differently than most here. If women can wear what they like then so can I. If they don't like it they can go looking for a man who is afraid to be a man and stand up to them. I know there are many here that are married and love their wives very much. And they worry if they stand up to their wife she will divorce them. But if she really loves you she will not. Many women are conditioned by their mothers to be the controller of the husband and do so with gusto to the point that they own you. I will not let that happen in my life, it is too short to put up with that kind of terror. So the question remains "ARE YOU A MAN IN A SKIRT OR A MOUSE??"
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Re: Symbols of power!

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Grok wrote:Some women will accept a man in a kilt, if she deems that garment as an expression of chutzpah. But for all too many women even a kilt is unacceptable.
The sarcastic response to that is, "OK, so what. You don't get to have our children." If they choose to limit themselves in such a shallow and self-serving manner then they get what they deserve. See "bozo filter".

The less sarcastic response would be, "If you can't handle my skirts, you won't be able to handle the rest of me -- and I do not 'steer well'." which is, at least in my case, entirely valid.

The point is, that who you are is an entire complete package -- and one that must be either embraced as a complete whole, or rejected as such. Trying to "change me" partway into a relationship will be fraught with peril. This is not to say I am inflexible when there are valid reasons for change; however, do not try "converting" me into a Disney-style "Prince Charming" [0]". We all have warts. That's part and parcel of being human. What I don't get is women latching onto somebody and then trying to turn him into something he isn't, never was, and never can be. That's a losing gambit -- every time.

[0] Registered Trademark, no doubt.
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Re: Symbols of power!

Post by Grok »

crfriend wrote: The sarcastic response to that is, "OK, so what. You don't get to have our children." If they choose to limit themselves in such a shallow and self-serving manner then they get what they deserve. See "bozo filter".
.
It has occurred me that, if you are male and single, wearing a kilt might serve as a bozo filter. If a women reacts positively, great, and if not, be glad that you didn't get involved with her.
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Re: Symbols of power!

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Grok wrote:It has occurred me that, if you are male and single, wearing a kilt might serve as a bozo filter. If a women reacts positively, great, and if not, be glad that you didn't get involved with her.
Well, I am male and single -- and I wear skirts -- so I'm living the experiment!

However, I also have lingering "trust issues" brought about by the acts of abuse heaped upon me by my ex, so I'm not "on the market" until I can sort through those.
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Re: Symbols of power!

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Grok wrote:It has occurred me that, if you are male and single, wearing a kilt might serve as a bozo filter. If a women reacts positively, great, and if not, be glad that you didn't get involved with her.
I've often wondered what it's like to be single, skirted, and trying to find a dating partner.

I presume tougher than if you always wore pants, but how much tougher?

Or do you show up for the first date with pants on, then tell her, then see if she accepts a second date?
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Symbols of power!

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Caultron wrote:I've often wondered what it's like to be single, skirted, and trying to find a dating partner. I presume tougher than if you always wore pants, but how much tougher? Or do you show up for the first date with pants on, then tell her, then see if she accepts a second date?
I would show up for the first date in a skirt since she would already know I wear skirts. :kiltdance:

I always wear skirts so if she has excepted a date she already knows and therefore it should not be a problem. :thumright: If it is a problem then I have not invested anything in the relationship. If not well see where it goes from there. :dance:
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