Mini Skirted Guy on A&E 'Airline'

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Since1982
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It's happened!

Post by Since1982 »

I was just watching "Airline" on one of the Discovery channels and I saw something I really didnt expect. A customer from Albuquerque New Mexico on Southwest Airlines going somewhere was banned from flying until he put on a pair of pants under his skirt he was wearing. The airline spokesperson said that several customers had complained that he wasn't wearing anything under his skirt, he showed the spokesperson that he WAS wearing jockey briefs under it but was told it didn't matter and he would HAVE to wear long pants of some sort or not be boarded. He was about 6 feet tall, slender, long greying hair and beard, looked perfectly well dressed to me, no tights, just a black velvet skirt about 18 inches long, and after having proved to the person in charge that he was wearing underpants and no one could see anything he was still denied boarding until he put on a pair of denim pants, to his credit he did still wear his skirt over the pants. The Airline rep told another rep on camera that it was all she could do not to break out laughing at him.

Don't we have a member from Albuquerque??? I thought we did, I don't remember who it was though. Help me here?
I had to remove this signature as it was being used on Twitter. This is my OPINION, you NEEDN'T AGREE.

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Enjoy it while you can, Brothers!

Post by longshadows »

I fear, if this story is correct, the time is coming when we shall all suffer this sort of discrimination. Once the practice of wearing unbifucated garments get a little more common--and the question of what most kilted men wear (or rather don't wear) under those garments becomes common knowledge, there will be more than a few people ready to express their disapproval. Who knows, laws may be attempted, "dress" codes put in place and (as we have seen here) airlines denying boarding to kilted men (regardless of what a "kilt check" turns up.)

At this point, kilted men are rare--actually very rare and no one is "threatened" by us. If a trend develops, we could see a backlash. I hope I am wrong, but given how easily some folks are at minding the business of others, I'm not holding out much hope for the future of our "freedom."

:(
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Post by Steven W »

I'm quite suprised this sort of trouble even happened. I've worn kilts and skirts many times as I've flown around the country and have never had any trouble. It's been a total non-event. Granted, most of my garb is usually knee length or longer, so there's little chance of exposure. I typically don't wear anything underneath my garb, but I keep in mind the way I sit and the way the skirt or kilt is laying across my legs.
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Post by nitrox »

Well, we can either sit here and do nothing about it and let them know that it's ok to do this kind of discrimination in business to customers... or we can write them (they don't accept email) and for nearly $.50 we can let them know what we think.

here's mine;

Dear SWA,

It has come to my attention by means of a special show called “Airline” on the Discovery Channel that SWA has discriminated against a passenger for wearing a skirt and attempting to board the aircraft. I know certain airlines have dress codes for their employees and more strict codes for their flight attendants, yet this was not an employee but a paying customer. The customer reportedly had long grey hair and a beard and was wearing a black skirt that went down to the knees. While this is not the best sounding image of someone in society today, I have seen similar looking people board and aircraft without being hassled or denied admittance to an aircraft.

This situation also makes me wander what would happen if a female passenger was to try and board one of SWA's aircraft while wearing a short miniskirt that was a bit past the mid thigh. Would SWA prohibit this passenger from boarding an aircraft for the reason of improper attire? The reasoning for this seems quite sexist and very old fashioned, not like SWA's approach to business. Is it also more acceptable to SWA that a woman or girl have the chance of their undergarments seen as to a boy or man's?

There are also people in the U.S. Who actively wear non-bifurcated garments either out of choice or because of a cultural identity. Would these people who pay for a seat on your aircraft also be denied passage onto it? Yet again, I'm also confused as to who makes these policies and who enforces them. Does SWA have a written customer dress code that has a minimum clothing requirement, and is it followed as stated on paper? There is a thing called a kilt which is and is not a skirt (depending on who you ask) and has a certain look to it, but there are several manufacturers who produce kilt like garments that are a hybrid of the kilt and skirt. It is very difficult to tell what is what and would this article of clothing prohibit someone (possibly me) from entrance to one of your aircraft, or would it be acceptable for a female to wear something similar?

As you know, discrimination is illegal on basis of gender, national origin, creed, race, religious affiliation, and sexual preference. This not only goes for employees but also customers as much if not more.

Regards,
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Post by nitrox »

SWA's address:

Southwest Airlines
Customer Relations/Rapid Rewards
P.O. Box 36647 - 1CR
Dallas, Texas 75235-1647
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Post by binx »

IMHO I think this an isolated incident that just happened to get put on a TV show. I've worn at-the-knee AKs and above-the-knee UKs flying everywhere from California to Florida, Texas to New York, without anyone complaining.

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Post by Kilted Musician »

A few years ago, I flew from San Jose, Ca to Seattle wearing my Utilkilt. Can't remember which airline but I think it was SWA. The only comment from anyone was at the security checkpoint. A guard looked at the kilt and asked, "Will that fall down if you removed the belt?" I just laughed and said, "No." He smiled, I took off the belt, and went through the checkpoint with no problems. I received quite a few looks at both airports but that's about it.

--Rick
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Post by talon2mech »

Since1982 wrote: Don't we have a member from Albuquerque??? I thought we did, I don't remember who it was though. Help me here?
It is I from Albuquerque, and no I was not the guy on "Airline". If I was that guy, I would have threatened the highest ranking guy with a lawsuit, and I would have gone to another airline vowing to never fly southwest again!
-Matt
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Post by isobar »

nitrox wrote:The customer reportedly had long grey hair and a beard and was wearing a black skirt that went down to the knees.
Trouble with complaining on second-hand information is that it can fall flat on the facts. I saw this show ages ago in the UK, and he was wearing a little mini skirt, not a knee-length skirt. I'd also question whether the airline employees were actively discriminating - they were actually responding to complaints from other passengers. Now, in one sense I guess this means they are taking their customer service seriously, but it does seem to have caused a kind of second-hand discrimination. Perhaps what they ought to have done was to investigate the substance of the complaint more thoughtfully and counsel the other party on discrimination.

On a nother note, it was amusing to note the employee's reference to the man's 'kilt', which required a lot of interpretation!
Dom
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Post by iain »

this is a very interesting situation- the truth is that as this movement succeeds, and guys wearing skirts becomes more widespread, the downside is that a lunatic fringe will be attracted--namely flashers.

these characters are generally men who are not right in the head and once they feel they have some kind of a licence to "accidentally" expose themselves for kicks they will indeed be offensive to others, myself included.

what can we do to help people distinguish between sane fashion and disturbed behaviour? it's good that we might be victims of our own success, and of course there has to be an answer. but you have to admit it's a really interesting situation to be in.
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Post by nitrox »

After reading some of the posts, I agree that I probably jumped a bit quick to complaining while reading 2nd hand info. The airline would probably deny such a accusation and denounce it as rubbish which has been dealbt with.

Iain once again is probably correct as it being an isolated incident. If it was probably on a TV show then it has to be something that other people will watch and that will get ratings because it's sensational. I forget sometimes that American TV is almost always just sensational and rarely ever (if produced by a big name company) really truthful..
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Knot Knee Length

Post by Since1982 »

I didn't say it was knee length, I said he was 6 feet tall and it was 18 inches long, which brought the hem to about 6 inches above his knees. It was not a tight or even straight skirt, and I don't doubt that anyone that cared to could probably see his jockey briefs, but a bulge in cloth is a bulge in cloth, whether in briefs or in pants. He did threaten to sue the airline too. I watch that show whenever it comes on, I didn't know it was a repeat, I'm sure I missed a lot of re-runs. Seemed current to me, guess it wasn't. It still looked like an infringement on his rights. I hope he contacted the ACLU. :shake:

OMGosh, my thousandth post...I guess I do post too much. sorry. :(

PS I do think that this, even if a rerun, is good for our movement, anyone seeing a normal looking "bloke in a skirt" makes male skirt wearing more the norm and not so much regarded as a "weird" sighting.
I had to remove this signature as it was being used on Twitter. This is my OPINION, you NEEDN'T AGREE.

Story of Life, Perspire, Expire, Funeral Pyre!
I've been skirted part time since 1972 and full time since 2005. http://skirts4men.myfreeforum.org/
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Post by Bob »

what can we do to help people distinguish between sane fashion and disturbed behaviour?
Hmm... in all my years, I have NEVER seen a woman "accidentally" expose her panties, or even NON-accidentally expose them. It would be really tacky. We can do the same, making sure to take steps to protect our modesty.

A bulge showing is different from pure immodesty. Women have bulges showing, that's not the same as going topless for them. But really, I prefer that bulges not be highlighted.
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Post by iain »

my gosh, bob, you better get y'self over to the UK! you'll be amazed!

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/view ... hp?t=39514

one of the big things young women are always talking about is how far they can push the boundaries; there are endless discussions on their forums about going commando, flashing, etc.

the difference is that women are not seen as sexual predators; men are generally behind all the dangerous or offensive sexual offences brought to our attention via the media, and therefore we do start with something of a bad rep, as far as strangers can see when we're on our own.

I think that's why a lot of guys really think twice before experimenting on their own--when you're out with a woman it's a very big statement to strangers that here is a guy who is part of society, he's not a loner, he has normal social relations, and his clothes are incidental; therefore look all you want by all means, but there's nothing the matter with him.
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Some thoughts...

Post by Don »

I, too, caught this episode of "airline" and had some responses to it...

As was already pointed out, the airline reps were caught between a rock and a hard place; they either had to respond to their other customers' complaints, or, in essence, join our crusade. As might be expected with a large organization operating with a large chunk of money on the table, they chose the path of the least resistance. Were I an SWA shareholder, I would have supported this, skirtsman or not....

I also wondered how close to 9/11 this event took place. For a period of time in the US, the airline industry and the traveling public were VERY SKITTISH about ANYTHING out of the ordinary boarding planes. This being the case, the other passengers reaction is understandable if not supportable.

The skirt-wearer in question struck me as an EXREMELY eccentric guy, who gave me the impression that hadn't had a haircut, a shower, or a shave in a while. I can understand the reaction of anyone who really didn't want to sit next to him, miniskirt or otherwise!

This event was INCONSISTENT with my own experience. I've never attempted to board a plane while skirted, but I've encountered zero negative feedback, and many others report no resistance from airliness!

Finally, it occured to me that the whole incident was a "put-on", produced soley for airing on "Airline". As was pointed out in another response, they thrive on sensationalism. This being the case, they did our little crusade no service!
Bob wrote:Hmm... in all my years, I have NEVER seen a woman "accidentally" expose her panties, or even NON-accidentally expose them. It would be really tacky.
Oh, I dunno 'bout that...

I can remember a young office mate of mine, many summers ago, with the habit of wearing a pair of lightweight white summer slacks that were just sheer enough to reveal a perfectly filled (and rather tittilating) pair of zebra-striped panties! This was one VERY FOXY lady who sported a "benchmark butt", and I am QUITE CERTAIN she knew PRECISLY what she was doing... Tacky? Well, maybe, but hey, why complain???

I'll carry it a step further than that! The sexiest, most sensuous, provocative garment I have EVER seen - on a mannequin in the window of a 5th Ave. boutique, of all places - was a beautifully tailored long skirt so sheer and transparent that the elegant, color-coordinated silk panties under it were CLEARLY intended to be part of the visible ensemble. It would take a VERY SPECIAL lady to pull this off, but I gotta tell ya, she would be ANYTHING BUT tacky!

Gentlemen, there's little dirty-old-man in each of us!!!...
A bulge showing is different from pure immodesty. Women have bulges showing, that's not the same as going topless for them. But really, I prefer that bulges not be highlighted.
I think I agree with this. Back in my leaner days, I often skated in unitards usually intended for ballet-wear. I wanted a smooth, sleek body-line, and tried to de-emphasize the bulge.
Don
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