Little Changes Little People

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Little Changes Little People

Postby Stu » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:16 pm

A small change I think we have all noted in recent years the abandoning of the pink taboo for boys, but I saw something else today while shopping that suggested to me a relaxation of a taboo that we are seeking to overturn.

I was sitting in a pharmacy waiting for a prescription to be filled and saw that a child, aged around three or four, was kneeling on the floor near me facing a chair like my own, and playing with some tiny plastic animals on that chair. I had seen the same child with earlier with an adult woman and an older child, a girl, aged maybe 7 or 8. This time, the woman and the older child were some yards away looking at goods on the shelves leaving junior to play. It wasn't easy to tell whether junior was a boy or a girl, but the hairstyle was closely cropped and had a side parting; this was like one would expect on a boy, but it's not unknown for girls to have short hair here. I made out that junior was wearing a long, multi-coloured tee-shirt and royal blue shorts with a striped belt and pockets. Junior is, I surmised, a boy. It wasn't until mum returned and junior stood up that I realised this long tee-shirt was quite clearly a knee-length dress that was gathered at the waist, and was pulled down as the child stood falling way below the hem of the shorts. OK, so junior is a girl.

But hang on - how many girls wear proper shorts with a belt and pockets under a dress? A few minutes later, after the family had gone and I'd got my tablets, I was joined by my youngest daughter. I told her what I had seen and wondered what she would make of it. She speculated that junior probably was a boy and the dress had been his older sister's, he'd said he wanted to wear it for a shopping trip and his mother was fine with that. She said that wouldn't have surprised her because, having a child of her own at nursery school (called "dagis" here), this kind of thing is not uncommon. The parents aren't trying to make some kind of ideological statement about gender norms: they just don't see it as an issue - and this is a major shift. Would such a thing have been conceivable just 30-years ago? Probably not. Does it prove that the age of males being free to wear unbifurcated clothes is now upon us? No. But little changes for little people is a little step - and lots of little steps make for a big stride forward over time.

Footnote: of course, we could both have been wrong and junior could have been a girl with cropped hair and an unusual desire to wear short trousers under a dress, in which case I apologize for wasting two minutes of your time reading this! :lol:
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby Fred in Skirts » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:46 pm

In all probability it was a boy, as I have seen some of the same here while passing daycares and preschools. Children at play wearing skirts or dresses and some are definitely boys. These are not church run operations as it would not happen there.
At least in my neck of the woods....
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby moonshadow » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:26 pm

Though I don't frequent places where young children are generally found, in the older age group (teenager-early 20's), I am seeing a lot of "boy girls" out and about. A "boy girl" in this meaning, being a girl that looks like a boy. I'm not sure if they're actually a "trans-man/boy" or not, or just a girl who dresses in boy clothes and has boy haircuts... but I do know this:

I see them all the time in the establishments where I work.

I'm pretty sure the actual males who work there aren't allowed to be "girly" even if they wanted to.

If this keeps up, homosexuality will be mandatory if humanity wishes to procreate as there will be two types of people, actual males (genetic males) and girls that look like males.- but everyone will be "men".

True femininity is dying, and it's rather sad to witness, as femininity is quite beautiful.

Life needs balance. Humanity is currently functioning like a propeller with a broken blade. Society is toxic because there's no balance. We have males and females, but only machoism can be found in either.

Ladies and gentlemen are VERY rare. I've only encountered a couple of each in my lifetime.
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby crfriend » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:32 pm

moonshadow wrote:Ladies and gentlemen are VERY rare. I've only encountered a couple of each in my lifetime.

I'm hoping that this is down to locality and local culture and not global, because if it is that's truly rotten.

"Ladies" are generally -- here -- an extinct species and "gentlemen" are vanishingly rare. I suspect this is down to the general compression of "acceptable behaviour" being shoved hard up against the "masculine" side of the spectrum and the complete abandonment of the "feminine" side. Heaven help the guy now who'd rather attend a symphony rather than a NASCAR event or who prefers art museums to "ultimate fighting". But that does not mean that the archetypes are entirely extinct, and you'll recognise one when you encounter them; it's just that the encounters are rare.

Interestingly, "up here", I've noticed a small uptick in overt gentility and politeness during times of heavy traffic on known-crowded roads. It manifests when you're sitting in a driveway trying to get out onto a crowded road and somebody slows down and waves you into traffic. This didn't happen much several years ago and is now becoming somewhat common. My response is always a friendly wave and a big smile -- and to get out of the way as much as I can. It seems to be more common with women, but, as you mention, it's getting difficult to tell the difference from a cursory glance. This is promising, as it represents a slow -- but discernible -- change from the "ME FIRST" attitude that's held sway for so long.

I came to the conclusion a few years ago that it was going to be likely impossible for me to find another partner as the typical body-types for women have either morphed into pseudo-boys or those who have simply let themselves go. Adequate intellect can override my aversion to either type, but that's getting rare as well. (Sadly, the "dumb blonde" archetype has failed to go away.) A "picture-perfect" "hard-body" woman -- the vaunted ideal of today -- puts me off completely as I regard the look as aping teenage guys and I don't roll that way. So, you may be onto something with that assertion.

Yes, I know that women are "not here for my enjoyment", but it would be nice to have a little bit of balance back in the works.

So, I don't think it's a "game over" scenario yet, but the prospects do seem a wee bit bleak.
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby Happy-N-Skirts » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:26 am

I am married to the most beautiful girl in the world, who incidentally has blonde hair. She graduated college with straight A's and has Tinkerbelle genes. She had a wonderful and fulfilling career, plays guitar and piano and likes singing and performing in a local restaurant when they have open mic nights on Thursdays. She and her friends are always learning new material, which is a nice activity for a retired person. We attended her 55th high school reunion last Saturday. We have been married for over 50 years. She also likes me in skirts.
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby crfriend » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:43 am

Happy-N-Skirts wrote:I am married to the most beautiful girl in the world, who incidentally has blonde hair. She graduated college with straight A's and has Tinkerbelle genes.

You're a fortunate man, sir!

I, too, have known brilliant blondes, but the stereotype still lingers, and it was in the latter vein that I was using the term. If any offence was perceived, rest assured that it was not intentional.
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby Kirbstone » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:44 am

Wht a lovely post, Happy'n Skirts. I am quite green with envy. I see also that you are ahead of me on the marital front. We are due to celebrate our golden wedding next January.
Alas, MOH, while she likes to sing in choirs, is not primarily musical, so doesn't play an instrument. also alas, she hates anything to do with me wearing skirts, describing it as an 'addiction', so that will not change for us. :blue:

Tom
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby FranTastic444 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:05 am

A relative of ours has a young son who has been known to dress as the princess out of Frozen and had a fairy outfit that he was very fond of at one stage. The parents were in a dilemma - they wanted him to pick what he wanted to wear without reference to gender norms, but at the time they were living in Dubai and worried that this might cause problems. The young lad refused to get his hair cut and with his long, curly locks he could have passed off as a girl easily. They are returning to the UK later this year - will be interesting to see what happens to his clothing preferences at that point.

Was Lewis Hamilton's reaction to his nephew wearing a dress picked up a while back on here? https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/lewis-hamilton-christmas-nephew-princess-dresses-formula-one-criticism-gender-a8128661.html
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby beachlion » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:57 am

moonshadow wrote:...... Ladies and gentlemen are VERY rare. I've only encountered a couple of each in my lifetime.


Experiences in this field might be different in other countries, cultures and circles. I believe that in Europe the idea of old fashioned styles and standards is still alive. In my work but also in my circle of family and friends, I met people with high moral standards like you see portrayed in British serials like Downton Abbey. Good manners and good behavior are not dead and buried.

Once I heard a sort of definition of this kind of behavior: doing the right thing when you know nobody is watching you.

But sometimes it can be smothering people. A colleague had to be formally dressed (tenue de ville) for dinner in his parental home when there were no guests. When he lived in his own apartment, his ultimate joy was eating at Mcdonalds because you could use your fingers.

I was born in The Hague. That is the city of the Dutch government. So it is also the city of the ambassies. That gives the city its "classy" atmosphere. That was for me the background when I grew up. I had some friends in those higher social echelons but I never had the urge or desire to move in that direction. But I met quite some ladies and gentlemen when I lived in The Hague. I hope I don't sound too cocky or elitair.
Last edited by beachlion on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby Rokje » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:48 am

Trying to raise the standard a bit in female appearance MOH and me went for a stroll along the shore of lake Zegerplas in Alphen aan den Rijn.
I was lookong like this.Image
MOH wears something like that as well incl the hat.
Further down, wich is not in the picture is a greenish ankle lenght dress. Many people we met liked our clothes and style.
Be proud to wear a skirt or dress they are just clothes. Yes , they are for men too :mrgreen:
I'm Marica, a 55 year old girl.

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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby SkirtsDad » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:49 pm

FranTastic444 wrote:A relative of ours has a young son who has been known to dress as the princess out of Frozen and had a fairy outfit that he was very fond of at one stage. The parents were in a dilemma - they wanted him to pick what he wanted to wear without reference to gender norms, but at the time they were living in Dubai and worried that this might cause problems.


My experience in at least a couple of countries in the Middle East is that they don't view foreigners in the same way, and you can read that how you like. In the 80s I travelled quite a lot around that region with my sister and perhaps because of my sun bleached hair, I got more attention from Arab men than my sister did. Although I wasn't wearing skirts then, I was slightly unconventionally dressed in very short shorts etc. I never got any hostility to the way I was dressed, unlike in the conservative UK.

My son always had, and still has, long hair. His mother was always trying to get him to have it cut "in case he would get bullied at school". Fortunately, he is very headstrong, which is why, in his mid-teens his hair is now down to his waist. Up until the age of about 12 he was frequently mistaken for a girl, which we both found quite amusing, often not even correcting people. He seemed to enjoy the compliments which it is uncertain would have been the same had they been aware he was a boy. On one occasion I did mention to a woman that refereed to him as "my daughter" that is was in fact "my son", to which she bizarrely replied "are you sure?" :lol:
Last edited by SkirtsDad on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Little Changes Little People

Postby denimini » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:56 pm

The fact that the child's gender was not obvious is unusual and a good sign that attitudes are changing.
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