Common Vision

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
Stu
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Common Vision

Post by Stu »

One thing I have noticed we don't have on this site is what I might refer to as a "common vision" for the future. In other words, we appear to want different things. Here's a little experiment. Imagine a scale of zero to ten, something like this:

ZERO = an end to the association of gender and clothing. There is no such thing as male/masculine/female/feminine clothing any more. Anyone can wear anything without the slightest stigma. It is just as natural to put a boy in a pretty summer dress as it is to put a girl in a tee-shirt and jeans; it is just as natural for a man to turn up for work in a pencil skirt, tights and high-heels as it is for a woman to wear slacks, shirt and tie.

TEN = skirts are available to men, but they are specifically designed to look very different to those worn by women. They are based on existing masculine styles, like kilts etc, and made to enhance the rugged and masculine physique. Such skirts would not be considered by most women as they are completely unfeminine.

Personally, I would put myself around SEVEN or EIGHT on the scale. I want to maintain a clear gender difference and for women's clothes to emphasise the feminine shape, but I don't want to be limited to Utilikilts or heavy denim with work boots.

Your thoughts?

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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Common Vision

Post by Fred in Skirts »

I would be in the 0 to 1 range. I really do not think that clothes should be gendered at all. I believe anyone should be able to wear anything they want with out being castigated for it. Clothes should be stylish and colorful. Some styles that flatter the females and some that flatter the males but all could be worn by either.

Fred
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Dick Ackerman
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Re: Common Vision

Post by Dick Ackerman »

Stu:

I fit on the scale about were you do. Seven to eight I don't have a problem with what others choose to do. But what I do will always tend to the masculine side as my photos show.

This first photo was taken just before my very first time wearing a skirt in public. A trip to Kennebunkport Maine about twenty years ago in September.
firstout2-web.jpg
This next photo is current. About the only thing that has changed is I have put on weight.
Dick-1-27-18-2-web.jpg
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Gusto10
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Re: Common Vision

Post by Gusto10 »

Dick Ackerman wrote:Stu:

I fit on the scale about were you do. Seven to eight I don't have a problem with what others choose to do. But what I do will always tend to the masculine side as my photos show.

This first photo was taken just before my very first time wearing a skirt in public. A trip to Kennebunkport Maine about twenty years ago in September.
firstout2-web.jpg
This next photo is current. About the only thing that has changed is I have put on weight.
Dick-1-27-18-2-web.jpg
I do think that the style has gone for the better
Last edited by Gusto10 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

skirts4me
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Re: Common Vision

Post by skirts4me »

I have always held the belief that clothing is functional, not sexual, but it needs to be styled according the body shape of the wearer. I know plenty of men who are big enough on top for a bra to be helpful, and I know plenty of women who are so small that a bra is useless. In another aspect, why should men be limited to relatively plain fabrics and not wear florals and lace?

In reality, pushing the boundaries too far, too quickly, works against the effort to break down cultural barriers, so whereas I would go 0-1 as a long-term goal, I'm pragmatic enough to believe that 7-8 is about as far as society would be willing to go at present - and here is Australia it might even be 9!
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moonshadow
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Re: Common Vision

Post by moonshadow »

What's the number for people who think others ought to just wear what they want?

That's my number....

Man wants to wear a macho trad-kilt? Go for it? Wanna wear a floral sun dress? Why not? It's their body, they should clad it as the see fit!

Maybe they don't want to have anything to do with any kind of skirt or kilt at all and just stay in trousers, that's okay too! My vision is nothing more than respecting everyone's right to choose.
-Moon Shadow
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moonshadow
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Re: Common Vision

Post by moonshadow »

Dick Ackerman wrote:This next photo is current. About the only thing that has changed is I have put on weight.
You do have some pretty wide shoulders. I bet something like a Klingon type of robe (to the floor) would look mighty cool on someone of your build.
-Moon Shadow
"Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation." - Benjamin Franklin

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Dick Ackerman
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Re: Common Vision

Post by Dick Ackerman »

moonshadow wrote:
You do have some pretty wide shoulders. I bet something like a Klingon type of robe (to the floor) would look mighty cool on someone of your build.
Moon:
I suspect you are correct. The only problem is, I would probably trip over the darn thing and fall on my face. Lol

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Re: Common Vision

Post by Ray »

I'm about a 4* - 7. I'm all about a male take on things, but I do like sheer hosiery!

( * edited after some thought - recalibrated)

Basically, I'm somewhere between Mark, Mike & Caultron...
Last edited by Ray on Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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crfriend
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Re: Common Vision

Post by crfriend »

Stu wrote:One thing I have noticed we don't have on this site is what I might refer to as a "common vision" for the future. In other words, we appear to want different things.
Striving for "common vision" is frequently like searching for sasquatches and Nessie; it's not likely to yield much in the line of fruit.

My personal thoughts on the matter -- and I am NOT writing this in any sort of editorial or administrative sense -- lean toward the thrust of anything that gets men out of two tubes and into one, at least some of the time, will be worthwhile. That, alone, would make a marked difference.

What any individual decides to garb himself in is up to him. Of note is that women already have this right; it's only restricted for men. I think that categorising the matter only serves to reinforce the status-quo which states pretty firmly that in western "culture" (unless you're a Scot) that it's two tubes, period.

But, in deference to the question, I'd weigh in at about a five for adults and a zero for children. The rationale for that is that (a) I'm not a particularly "rugged and 'masculine' " type and never have been in spite of my size and bearing, (b) I have an extreme distaste for double-standards, and (c) it's time to stop pigeon-holing children from before the time they're born. Recall that until comparatively recently having boys in dresses was quite common.
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skirts4me
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Re: Common Vision

Post by skirts4me »

moonshadow wrote:Man wants to wear a macho trad-kilt? Go for it? Wanna wear a floral sun dress? Why not? It's their body, they should clad it as they see fit!
In theory, I agree with Moonshadow. However, many of us, in our work and personal life, have to relate to other people who do not wish to associate with someone dressed inappropriately (in their eyes), so exercising our right to choose what we wear can have negative consequences. If I were to turn up in a skirt, preparing to give a talk to oil executives, I wouldn't be allowed near the presentation area, even though such discrimination is technically illegal. If I turned up in a skirt to provide pastoral care for a family about to lose a loved one, I'm fairly sure the encounter would not be pleasant for someone not used to me being so attired - even though there are no legal or ethical reasons why I shouldn't wear skirts.

Some people are fortunate to be able to do their own thing all the time; others have to be aware of the potential negative impact.
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Re: Common Vision

Post by Kilty »

The above post is correct! As much as I've enjoyed skirting over the years, I never considered the social impact on others around me, even when posting here I have rubbed some up the wrong way. Greater society is slowly beginning to recognize men in skirts, but usually under the "trans" umbrella, which is where most of us don't really want to be. I guess technically we're Partial Transvestites though we use the term "Men in Skirts" and hope it will stick :roll: It is very few who have been able to just wear a skirt / dress with minimal social impact or have to deal with flak from others, ie teasing, puzzled looks, social exclusion, issues with work and HR etc. We try to tough it out and "unsee" them, the way they might wish to "unsee" us.

Kilts seem to be the only legitimate outlet, though its nice to see fashion designers send men in skirts dosn the catwalk, most of the designs are outlandish, and won't encourage the average Joe to consider our fashion choice. Skirts require accessorizing, tights, underwear, heels, handbags, blouses etc which can be time consuming coordinating as well. I do applaud those who have pulled the look off without eventually transitioning. There was a guy I followed on Lookbook called Crystal James before he transitioned, and there have been others here who have passed through before choosing to live as women and stop posting here. I guess to many we are an odd "halfway house", but in most situations like work conferences, customer facing roles etc., unless its a plain black skirt and we have the backing of HR dept, (usually under LGBT) it will be still quite unlikely. We still have to conform that little bit to others around us.

Even kilts which are socially acceptable would not always be practical all the time - even women wear trousers sometimes, skirts sometimes so we could cause "skirt tyranny" if we just plump for one mode of dress over the other. I do admire Mark as in Mark, but I have seen his Pinterest page has gone and so has he, which is a shame as he had some nice workwear. I think I prefer kilts and highland wear after many years of experimenting and that's where I'm heading.

For those I upset with stolen pictures, I am sorry, for those I met and ruined friendships from being so pleased to meet a fellow skirter, I'm truly sorry. :blue: :blue: :blue:

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Re: Common Vision

Post by john62 »

I think that clothing should not have gender, men and women should be able to wear any clothing that suits their build and is appropriate to the situation the person is in. I am down the zero end of the scale.

John

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denimini
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Re: Common Vision

Post by denimini »

I would register 0 to 0.1 on the scale. I think people should be able to choose to wear whatever they like and if clothing had no gender attributes, that would make it easier.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia

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Kilted_John
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Re: Common Vision

Post by Kilted_John »

Even though some of my outfits do seem to put me at zero, I, like Carl, am around a 5.

I also agree with Tony, Moon, and Carl, in that whatever someone wants to wear is fine with me, provided it's appropriate for the situation they're dealing with. A floor sweeper may look nice, but it's probably not something you'd want to wear while working on machinery or doing gardening on a somewhat muddy day. Just like how swimwear wouldn't be appropriate in a chemical lab. Wouldn't want chemical burns on your skin.

-J
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