What if We did the same to Them?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

What if We did the same to Them?

Postby Daryl » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:01 am

I've often wondered what would happen if we did the same to our female family, friends and other contacts that they try to do to us when they express disapproval of our clothing, ignoring that they have the weight of social norms on their side and only focussing on the immediate fact that it is at its core an attempt to control us to suit their preferences.

What if we often said "a woman of your weight should not wear tight sweaters?"

What if we asked our wives to not wear pants when in public with us?

What if we said that women should not wear pants that show their butts but instead were cut loose enough to conceal them?

What if we asked them to not wear tops that showed any cleavage?

What if we criticised them for having their hair cut short because it makes them look mannish?

Would they be as receptive to our control as they obviously believe we should be to theirs? How many divorces would ensue?
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby Big and Bashful » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:03 am

What if we tell them that "Yes! Their bum does look big in that!"
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby Fred in Skirts » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:46 am

What would be the case for a divorce? :evil:
Why would they want a divorce for telling them the same things they tell us? :evil:
We are only doing what they do to us trying to control what they do and wear. Is that not equal behavior? I say do not let them control what we wear but tell them the reason why we are rebelling to their control.
What are we MEN or CONTROLLED MICE?? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby greenboots » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:25 pm

OK, who's going first?

[Dons tin hat]
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby crfriend » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:30 pm

Big and Bashful wrote:What if we tell them that "Yes! Their bum does look big in that!"

I have done just that, and did so in all honesty. Once. The results were immediate, predictable, and lasted for weeks.
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby greenboots » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:35 pm

crfriend wrote:
Big and Bashful wrote:What if we tell them that "Yes! Their bum does look big in that!"

I have done just that, and did so in all honesty. Once. The results were immediate, predictable, and lasted for weeks.


I confess that I rarely comment on women's clothes, and only say anything negative about anything my wife tries on if it is really bad. She has a very low opinion of herself, and any negative comment about clothing translates in her mind into criticism of her.

On the other hand, I probably listen too much to her comments on what I do or might wear. (I'm probably also too sensitive to criticism!) Hence I tend to stay with safe things. This week I took some Christmas money to town and ended up with plain navy trousers from Marks and Spencer - very useful and versatile, but not very interesting.

[On another topic, which is referred to in a thread elsewhere on SC, she has been looking for a nice skater skirt (which are surprisingly hard to find over here at the moment) I spotted a nice one in the window of Oasis by Waverley Station. I planned to point it to her and suggest getting one each - a reference to an offhand comment she made about three years ago. Unfortunately, when we walked past the window together, it had disappeared :( ]
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby moonshadow » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:32 pm

I've tried a few on the list with those who objected. It didn't work out too well. Mostly I get the old "well that's different".... :roll:

When I was thinking about moving to Nashville, my mother wanted to help me, she asked me to wear trousers during the ordeal, I objected, and a small spat followed in which I told her she couldn't wear trousers then, and she replied "okay, I'll wear a skirt". So it kind of backfired.

Other times I've played these arguments at work, I suppose I could consider myself somewhat successful as I managed to not loose my job, however I don't get invited to anything outside of work any longer, and word gets back to me that I'm the subject of a lot of gossip.

But in all fairness though, I feel most people simply don't care what I wear, I would imagine they think to themselves "it's a free country". Perhaps a few might even say "well women wear what they want... so why not?"

Considering in my experience the ugliest comments regarding what I wear come from younger women, I've often wondered how it would be received if I went on a tirade demanding that all women look and dress like women, in modest skirts and dresses?

I've wondered what would happen if I approached H.R. and said that the sight of women wearing trousers offends me and I don't think they should be wearing them out in public.

Well, I didn't wonder for long, I know what would happen. I'd just get fired for that! :roll:

Why? That's FEMALE PRIVILEGE BABY! They can wear whatever. they. want.!

After all.... "women shouldn't wear trousers" is an opinion.... (and an unpopular one at that)

"men shouldn't wear dresses" is a fact.... right?? :roll: :?

I know every time I don a skirt or a dress I think the Earth stops spinning just for a bit. The laws of physics break down, we run the risk of burning off our atmosphere so I can totally understand the objections! ...NOT!
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby crfriend » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:55 pm

moonshadow wrote:When I was thinking about moving to Nashville, my mother wanted to help me, she asked me to wear trousers during the ordeal, I objected, and a small spat followed in which I told her she couldn't wear trousers then, and she replied "okay, I'll wear a skirt". So it kind of backfired.

Well, your mom handed you the hot potato didn't she. Good on her, and you should have held her to it (to a point). A more poignant question as a followup to her objection might just have simply been a quiet, "Why?"

If necessary, ask, "Why?" a few times. A business tome I read a while back described the process of root-cause-analysis as the act of asking, "Why?" five times, not being shy of the answers, and not accepting, "because we've always done it that way" as an answer. The latter issue is usually the stumbling-block, although not being shy of the answers can be a tough hill to climb as it may involve some introspection (which, in the business sense, is where weak and ineffectual "managers" fail).

Contemplate the "five whys" for a moment in the context of guys wearing mono-tube garments. The first question might simply be phrased as, "Why don't guys wear skirts when it's hot outside?"; the most common answers would likely be, "because men don't wear skirts", "men have never worn skirts", and "men shouldn't wear skirts". The first two are trivially refutable, and then we'd have to ask, "Why?" about the third. For fun, and as mental gymnastics, dig into the sequence to see what pops out.
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby moonshadow » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:19 am

crfriend wrote:Contemplate the "five whys" for a moment in the context of guys wearing mono-tube garments. The first question might simply be phrased as, "Why don't guys wear skirts when it's hot outside?"; the most common answers would likely be, "because men don't wear skirts", "men have never worn skirts", and "men shouldn't wear skirts". The first two are trivially refutable, and then we'd have to ask, "Why?" about the third. For fun, and as mental gymnastics, dig into the sequence to see what pops out.


I didn't attempt the "why" exercise with Mom, but a about a year or so ago, we did explore the issue, and she admitted to me "I can not find any logical reason for you not to do this, and I've tried!"

I have played the "why" card with a few others, the first time was actually the very first co-worker who spotted the photo on facebook. A very fundamental Christian man.

"You're not supposed to wear skirts"

"Says who?"

"God"

"Oh good grief, you know I don't believe in that stuff"

More conversation followed along that line, it was suggested I find a church. Finally we agreed to disagree.
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby denimini » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:50 am

crfriend wrote:............."because men don't wear skirts",

No-one has said that to me yet, but if they did, I would have to agree; "That is true, I have never seen another man on the street in a skirt. I wonder why because they can wear them and skirts are great to wear in warm weather."
moonshadow wrote:"You're not supposed to wear skirts"

"Says who?"

"God"

I don't know how I would respond to that one, it would be like trying to communicate with a Martian. I can't help wondering how he knew "God's will" and have a mental image of the guy trying on a skirt and getting zapped on the behind by a bolt of lightning.
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby Daryl » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:31 am

denimini wrote:
crfriend wrote:............."because men don't wear skirts",

No-one has said that to me yet, but if they did, I would have to agree; "That is true, I have never seen another man on the street in a skirt. I wonder why because they can wear them and skirts are great to wear in warm weather."
moonshadow wrote:"You're not supposed to wear skirts"

"Says who?"

"God"

I don't know how I would respond to that one, it would be like trying to communicate with a Martian. I can't help wondering how he knew "God's will" and have a mental image of the guy trying on a skirt and getting zapped on the behind by a bolt of lightning.


That's the easy one. Leviticus 18:22, the supposed commandment-like teaching against male homosexuality. Of course it doesn't refer to skirts but it is the underpinning of fundamentalist understanding of sex roles and challenging gendered social norms like dress is in the simple fundamentalist mind just the thin end of the same wedge. Essentially, being like a woman in any way is just wrong, for men.
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby moonshadow » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:43 am

denimini wrote: I can't help wondering how he knew "God's will" and have a mental image of the guy trying on a skirt and getting zapped on the behind by a bolt of lightning.


Nobody knows Gods will. This much I'm fairly certain. Anyone who says otherwise, there is a silver bullet to this argument that works every time... I simply say:

"PROVE IT!"

And I always follow with:

"Now I'm not talking about loosing my job, that would be the result of human prejudice, not God, I'm not talking about falling on some weird cancer, that's a result of all the crap in our food supply, or my house burning down, that's the result of faulty electrical, or a space heater, or my propane heater, or 50 year old oil burner, etc... no sir. I want something truly SUPERNATURAL, something that CAN NOT be mistaken as an act of man".

Getting a non-fatal lightning strike right next to me on a clear day in the debt of winter, at the exact same time I'm trying on a skirt.... I'd accept that...

God... the ball's in your court... I'm waiting... In fact. I'm wearing my mouseworks skirt now. Let see it!
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby moonshadow » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:47 am

moonshadow wrote:God... the ball's in your court... I'm waiting... In fact. I'm wearing my mouseworks skirt now. Let see it!


See... doesn't look like she has a problem with it... :wink:
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby Daryl » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:33 am

moonshadow wrote:
moonshadow wrote:God... the ball's in your court... I'm waiting... In fact. I'm wearing my mouseworks skirt now. Let see it!


See... doesn't look like she has a problem with it... :wink:


Um, try saying it three times whilst looking in a mirror?

Personally, even if I were touched by His noodly appendage every time I put on a skirt, I'd still have to wonder what He was trying to tell me.

(note: I capitalise the pronoun not for emphasis but for formality, and use the male gender only because it's obvious since FSM is almost always depicted with meatballs)
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Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Postby hairy » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:58 am

The women wouldn't like us telling them what they can/can't wear.
I wouldn't play these games, women can wear what they want, so too can men. Anyone says anything negative about my skirting, I can just lift my head high and walk away feeling happy and free.
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