Skirted - diagnosis, therapy, or what?

[familyman34]

I'm very new here. Over the last few days I've tried to work out why I joined SC.

Brief description of my external appearence: mid-60s, 6ft/183cm, around 15.5stone/218lbs/98kg, short grey/black hair, neat (I think) moustache, still reasonably slim/not fat.

I've always had trouble getting trousers that fit; until my 30s I wore men's trousers, and found that the waist was too big, probably by at least 4"/10cms. In my 30s I started to get a few pairs cut to the female shape, and they really fitted well. (I have always had prominent buttocks - don't laugh - and strong thighs, and women's trousers had enough space to cope with my shape.) Over the years I got more and more trousers from the women's side of the shop, and fewer from the men's; with the men's ones, the deciding factor was whether, for the "correct" waist size, I could get it up over my backside, for the women's ones whether, once pulled up properly, I could close the waist. Today, with my advancing years, I have become a bit thicker round the middle, but my backside seems to have also grown proportionally, so the same problem remains. Recently I went through my wardrobe and realised that I hadn't worn any of my men's trousers for at least 10 years, so I took a full black bin-bag to the Cancer Research charity shop. And now I also have some women's shirts and sweaters, bought in charity shops too.

Now, is there more to my developing female wardrobe than this purely practical requirement? It has bothered me (and my wife) for some time. Am I drawn to female clothes for a deeper, more psychological reason? Am I using SC as a means of diagnosis of a problem or as a therapy?

I don't know. I do know that I don't wish to look like a woman, with any physical female characteristics (other than the practical ones of better fitting clothes). I want to continue to have short hair (when it gets to about 1.5"/4cm I get it cut back to 0.5"/1.5cm) and have only been without my moustache for a few days in the last 35 years (I was persuaded to shave it off for a friend's wedding and everyone said I looked so strange that they begged me to grow it back at once). However, my legs are entirely hairless; all my leg hair disappeared in my late 30s (My daughters are so envious but I tell them that I don't know whether their genetic inheritance will do the same for them!), though I still have a "normal" chest covering of (now 50% white) hair. I don't do any of the stereotypical female ornamentation: jewellery, make-up, perfumes, etc. So, all in all, I think that I'm a sane, well-balanced, modern, liberal, free-thinking MAN.

But only time will tell!

[greenboots]

Hi Damily Man

I’m with you on the problem of the shape of men’s trousers. I used to wear women’s Wrangler jeans no cater for my broad hips and large rear. Unfortunately women’s trousers are made of such skimpy material and these days are mostly black, so I’m not interested.

As to skirts, I don’t desire to be a woman or even look remotely like one (despite MOH’s fears). Wearing a skirt I don’t feel any different as a person, just freer and more comfortable. I’d you still feel free enough to choose whatever to wear trousers or skirts according to occasion, then I’d say you don’t need to worry about your mental state. I’d only become concerned if wearing a skirt became the only thing that mattered to me, especially if it were to threaten my marriage (so far only a little tension in that department).

Others may have a different take, but that’s my two penn’orth, for what it’s worth.

Steven

[crfriend]

Now, is there more to my developing female wardrobe than this purely practical requirement? It has bothered me (and my wife) for some time. Am I drawn to female clothes for a deeper, more psychological reason? Am I using SC as a means of diagnosis of a problem or as a therapy?

Necessity is frequently the mother of invention (or at least discovery) and you've found a way to fix a problem that you have when it comes to the stuff that's fitted for the hypothetical "normal" build for males. It's not an "issue" requiring diagnosis or therapy unless you want to make it one -- and even the psychiatric profession is starting to realise the fact instead of automatically labelling us as perverts (later editions of the DSM indicate that a clinical diagnosis of "transvestic fetishism" [0] requires the situation to cause significant distress to the individual in question).

From this author's perspective, there are many things more pleasing about female-marketed clothing than male-marketed. For one, there is a vastly wider colour-pallette available which - whilst it can sometimes be confusing -- is a whole lot of fun. There was a brief spurt of colour in male-marketed dress shirts a few years ago here, but that seems to have dried up; my very colourful dress shirts of the era are already starting to get a bit ratty. There's also texture and feel in play. I am very tactile, so I like things that feel nice, and most male-marketed stuff simply doesn't. Give me a satin or velvet any day of the week over denim and canvas. There's also a fairly bewildering array of style options available with skirts that simply cannot exist with male-marketed trousers; there's long, short, and anything in between, and different degrees of flare to consider. There's also what one can do with that large a canvas -- and this is where prints can be a heck of a lot of fun, and that just doesn't fly with trousers.

If it looks good on you, feels good to be in, and doesn't bother those around you, why not go for it?

[0] Try labelling a woman with that because she dresses in trousers. If you're lucky you'll get slapped; if unlucky, a lawsuit.

[mishawakaskirt]

Your a man that enjoys some womans clothing nothing more.
No one ever questions a woman with short hair and in blue jeans and t shirt that she wants to be a man. Why is it diffrent if a man wears a skirt?

I have bought and worn ladies jeans. The particular brand I buy has no designs, roomly, seat and legs without looking baggy. another plus, I do not have have them hemed up. I'm a size 38 to 40 mens on a 5' 7" frame, all mens jeans are too long. They figure if your that size you must be 6' 6" tall every thing is too long in mens. Including mens kilts they according to the kilt police run too long on me, at first it was a concern for me, then I decided to wear the kilt at my navel like should be, so be it that it hangs below my knees. Maby 1 in 1000 people will see that its a little long. The uneducated see a guy in a skirt, the educated see a guy in a kilt, the well educated see its a little long.
From your post. Sounds like most likely comfort and practicality are your driving factors. If you find it comfortable, wear it, sweat pants, old sneakers, t shirt, skirt,
kilt, comfortable, wear it. I don't know if you found a diagnosis, therapy,or what?
However I do know you found friendship and brotherhood here at the cafe, we are small but proud, but VERY comfortable bunch.

[moonshadow]

With 4 post strong, I can not even begin to unravel the possible physiological reasons that you do this, or have taken a liking to skirts. I'd most likely be no better qualified after ten thousand post. My first reaction to the thread was "your thinking too much into this", but alas, I suppose we all do, in our own way, and the questions you post are the same I'm sure most, if not all of us have wrestled with a time or two. I know I still go in and out of little complexes to this day.

Oh yes, I have my days when I just want to box it all up and try "being normal" again. But at what price? If you want to wear, say a skirt for instance, but don't because of what some people might say, I wonder why worry about it to begin with? Do we want friends and people around us who ridicule people for being different? I know I don't. So my skirts are also good for weeding out "bad people" in my life... Besides, why would I want to attract "normal" people anyway... they're sooooo booooorriiinnnggg! *yawn*

And believe me, there is a long list of "bad people" on my account that have more or less ditched me since I started this....

As they say... "good riddance to bad rubbish..."

[Sinned]

I concur with all that's been said. Don't try and analyse why you like the clothes you do - you'll get more of a psychosis doing that than is good for you. I don't know why I like my skirts and have stopped trying to think it out. I also buy women's jeans/trousers as they fit me better and I can get the bright colours that I like. I have just finished wearing a pair that's bright St George cross red and before that a bright blue pair. Unlike some on the site I mix wearing trousers and skirts and if my spouse would just leave me free to wear what I like when I like then it would depend on my mood, the temperature and what came out of the wardrobe first as to whether it would be skirt or trousers. I like the tops as well, spaghetti's, vests and T-shirts. I like the idea of dresses and am experimenting but know that MOH wouldn't accept them yet.

Women can get away with wearing anything so why is there such a problem with men wanting to wear a skirt, jeans or tops that are marketed for women. In situations like this I recite the Serenity Prayer:

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

[Grok]

If you must borrow from the other side of the aisle to find something that fits...well, you must do what you must do. I wouldn't try to psychoanalyze myself if you are simply being practical.

[Fred in Skirts]

OK! I wear skirts and tops from the ladies side of the store. I enjoy wearing them they are so much more comfortable to me. I also wear dresses some times but I have not worn one away from the house yet, just not ready to. I do not wonder if I am doing something that is wrong or morally deficient, they are just made of cloth and are not alive so do not have a gender or sex. I am a man and I am happy that I am, I do not want to be a woman at all.
So onward and upward! Power to the man in all of us.

[denimini]

I have worn women's jeans since I was in my mid 20's for similar reasons; a better fit, more stretch materials for comfort and more choice of colour. I still wear pants in winter but now I am mostly in skirts in the warmer 8 months of the year. I do sometimes wonder why I wear clothes that are not typical for men but then I think of other things in my life that are different - and that is it; I am unique, like everyone, but I am not afraid to show it. It is strange that so many people spend vast amounts of money to proclaim their individuality, and often are not comfortable with their real self let alone showing it.
A man with a $5 skirt will turn more heads than with any Porsche.
The only reason one would seek diagnosis or therapy is if it was harmfull to others or themself, like drugs or gambling. I wouldn't be getting worried about the cut of a cloth.

[Mark as in Mark]

I don't worry about it. In fact, I would now feel out of place if I wore pants more often. I started wearing high heels and that lead me to skirts. I've tried and done just about everything when it comes to wearing woman's clothes. Yes, I tried the wig, make-up, silicon breasts, bra, the works! But then later realized it wasn't for me. I am more comfortable with my chosen style. I still get dressed up, wishes from my wife, but she knows I don't feel as comfortable when doing it. But.... let me wear some heels and a skirt and I'll go anywhere. I feel, like as others have said here, don't over think it, if it feels right, just do it!

A man with a $5 skirt will turn more heads than with any Porsche.

How about a man wearing a skirt driving a Porsche?

[SkirtsDad]

I'm very new here. Over the last few days I've tried to work out why I joined SC.

Now, is there more to my developing female wardrobe than this purely practical requirement? It has bothered me (and my wife) for some time. Am I drawn to female clothes for a deeper, more psychological reason? Am I using SC as a means of diagnosis of a problem or as a therapy?

I don't know. I do know that I don't wish to look like a woman, with any physical female characteristics (other than the practical ones of better fitting clothes). So, all in all, I think that I'm a sane, well-balanced, modern, liberal, free-thinking MAN.

Welcome to SC! As with the rest of us in SC, you share a common interest, but you've probably already noticed that it doesn't mean the same perspective. Whether you are using this forum for diagnosis or therapy, does it matter?

I probably joined SC out of curiosity and find out more about other skirt wearers. It was quite a while before I really posted anything. I'm still here years on so it can't be a that bad place

Much as you seem to be doing, there are certainly a few here, including myself, that have gone through a questioning phase, just as those around you, such as your wife, are doing also. I think it's quite natural... we are humans and that is a human trait, so feel free to post questions here. Hopefully you might find some of the responses helpful to you.

In what way does it bother your wife that you wear clothes predominantly worn by women?
Apart from the comfort, what else do you enjoy about wearing "female" clothing?

[Daryl]

I'm very new here. Over the last few days I've tried to work out why I joined SC.

Now, is there more to my developing female wardrobe than this purely practical requirement? It has bothered me (and my wife) for some time. Am I drawn to female clothes for a deeper, more psychological reason? Am I using SC as a means of diagnosis of a problem or as a therapy?

I think we can get trapped into questioning our sexuality because that is the easiest target (as uneasy as it might make us). The harder question, which I am guilty of having avoided for some time myself, is "why do I want to wear skirts and other feminine things so badly that I am willing to defy the enormous social pressure to conform to masculine norms?"

The easy answer to that hard question loops back to the easy question "is it my sexuality" and for most people observing you the answer is easy: "yes, gotta be, what else could drive a man to dress like a woman despite all the social pressure and shaming he'll get for it?"

To make matters worse, for heterosexual males in particular, sexuality winds up entering the equation no matter what. You see a woman; the normal object of your sexual desire; and she looks so great you wonder what it would be like to dress (or look) like her. The only narrative available to us is the "trans" narrative so we lack the mental tools to really describe what's going on, and that easy answer begins to seem more like the only candidate.

And here's the kicker. If that easy answer is not true, we may suspect ourselves of simply being in denial of it, so we keep interrogating it, in an endless loop. I did this for years.

"Is it my sexuality?"
No.
"Maybe I'm just in denial. Is it my sexuality?"
No.
"Maybe I'm just in denial..."

For me, the truth turned out to be not so complicated, but made hard to see just because the sexuality thing loomed so big. Tracing back to my earliest memories I can see it now as a developing fascination with aesthetics that I found appealing (pretty things and the open freedom of dresses) plus obsession with forbidden fruit. The more I knew that I wasn't allowed these things that I wanted, the more I wanted them.

Only later did the superior comfort of skirts themselves become a factor to me, and with that came resentment that I was not only being prevented from having what I wanted but also being forced to be less comfortable than I might be because of it. That resentment tipped the fascination and obsession over into defiance, and I wore my first kaftan in public.

"Diagnosis, therapy, or what?" This is also a question being asked in the absence of a competing narrative. Let's just call it figuring stuff out in the presence of others with similar experiences and interests. Let's not medicalise our tastes, preferences, or whatever we call them, more than they need to be.

[Daryl]

A man with a $5 skirt will turn more heads than with any Porsche.

How about a man wearing a skirt driving a Porsche?

A $5 Porsche?

[Gusto10]

I'm very new here. Over the last few days I've tried to work out why I joined SC.

Brief description of my external appearence: mid-60s, 6ft/183cm, around 15.5stone/218lbs/98kg, short grey/black hair, neat (I think) moustache, still reasonably slim/not fat.

I've always had trouble getting trousers that fit; until my 30s I wore men's trousers, and found that the waist was too big, probably by at least 4"/10cms. In my 30s I started to get a few pairs cut to the female shape, and they really fitted well. (I have always had prominent buttocks - don't laugh - and strong thighs, and women's trousers had enough space to cope with my shape.) Over the years I got more and more trousers from the women's side of the shop, and fewer from the men's; with the men's ones, the deciding factor was whether, for the "correct" waist size, I could get it up over my backside, for the women's ones whether, once pulled up properly, I could close the waist. Today, with my advancing years, I have become a bit thicker round the middle, but my backside seems to have also grown proportionally, so the same problem remains. Recently I went through my wardrobe and realised that I hadn't worn any of my men's trousers for at least 10 years, so I took a full black bin-bag to the Cancer Research charity shop. And now I also have some women's shirts and sweaters, bought in charity shops too.

Now, is there more to my developing female wardrobe than this purely practical requirement? It has bothered me (and my wife) for some time. Am I drawn to female clothes for a deeper, more psychological reason? Am I using SC as a means of diagnosis of a problem or as a therapy?

I don't know. I do know that I don't wish to look like a woman, with any physical female characteristics (other than the practical ones of better fitting clothes). I want to continue to have short hair (when it gets to about 1.5"/4cm I get it cut back to 0.5"/1.5cm) and have only been without my moustache for a few days in the last 35 years (I was persuaded to shave it off for a friend's wedding and everyone said I looked so strange that they begged me to grow it back at once). However, my legs are entirely hairless; all my leg hair disappeared in my late 30s (My daughters are so envious but I tell them that I don't know whether their genetic inheritance will do the same for them!), though I still have a "normal" chest covering of (now 50% white) hair. I don't do any of the stereotypical female ornamentation: jewellery, make-up, perfumes, etc. So, all in all, I think that I'm a sane, well-balanced, modern, liberal, free-thinking MAN.

But only time will tell!

having read this and having given it a thought, I guess the main reason for your choice of clothing is the aspect of comfort, it fits. Clothing is in essence gender neutral and as we have arrived in a genderless society, as a number of shops have banned "The Aisle".
Looking at women who have been shopping across the aisle, I doubt whether they have pondered why they did so, most probably they consider it "their right" to do so.
So, I would advice you to stop pondering the question.

[Caultron]

...Now, is there more to my developing female wardrobe than this purely practical requirement? It has bothered me (and my wife) for some time. Am I drawn to female clothes for a deeper, more psychological reason? Am I using SC as a means of diagnosis of a problem or as a therapy?...

You can only answer these questions yourself. We are all on this planet following different roads for many different reasons, and none of them simple.

So one approach is just to take things as they are and not worry about it.

But if you want to dig deeper, here are some things to think about, but please don't feel any pressure to answer them here on the board. They're just to think about.

Is wearing a skirt (or other supposedly women's garments) sexual for you? Like, do you get aroused when putting them on or even thinking about them? Why?

Are there any reasons other than fit that you started wearing women's pants? Be honest with yourself. Almost everything we do has multiple reasons.

Why are you starting to wear skirts now? Why not before? Have you wanted this for a long time but lacked the courage, or is it totally new?

When you check a skirt outfit in the mirror, what sort of criteria do you use? Fit and color coordination, of course, but do you ever wonder, "If I saw a woman in this outfit, would I be attracted to her?" Or, "I find these clothes comfortable, but do I look ridiculous?" Or, "Is this one more step toward looking like or becoming a woman?" Or, "Is this a workable blend of current men's and women's fashion styles?" There are a thousand possibilities.

Does the idea of flaunting social convention, whether with clothes or anything else, appeal to you? Are you a rebel in any other ways?

There must be a million more but hopefully you get the drift. Just don't expect any easy or unary answers.