Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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crfriend
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

Post by crfriend »

Grok wrote:An individual with a male body-unless LBGT-must conform to rigid gender stereotypes. So we can't possibly be interested in garments that are associated almost entirely with females.
That's the usual -- and entirely ignorant -- viewpoint. Fortunately, ignorance is fairly easily cured in the reasonably intelligent; a conversation is usually all that's needed. Once a connection is made, the ignorance fades away pretty quickly.

Then there are the truly stupid, and for those there is no hope.
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

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Charlie wrote:What bothered me a bit was that the school said it supports LBGT; the public are now being fed the story that if a boy wants to wear a skirt, he must be wanting to become a girl, and he couldn't possibly want to wear skirts out of preference - like us guys. Nothing is ever said about girls wearing trousers because thay want to become boys :?
Understood, and I suppose it could be argued that such labeling may serve to confuse children as those on the far right allege.

A solution?

Don't bother with labels until the child is old enough to understand the politics[0] and meanings behind what it really means to be transgender. I can imagine it being a lot for a six year old to understand, hell I'm 30 years older than that and I still struggle to understand it all. Just let the boys who want to wear dresses and skirts wear them and leave the politics and gender policing out of it, similar to how we do girls who wear trousers, or God forbid, act as tomboys.

However in the adult world....
Grok wrote:LBGT is the fashionable cause of today; people like Skirt Cafe members aren't even on the radar.
I know the membership here has debated transgender issues time and time again, and I understand that on a personal level many of us to not consider ourselves transgender, and some do. As I have stated in previous post, that decision is personal and is not up to anyone else to decide.

All that being said, for the purposes of legality, lawyers, etc. If we (just plain old men in skirts) are faced with an injustice on account of what we wear, I'm certain that any legal remedy would be under the umbrella of transgender rights and law [2]. Do I agree with this, or think it's right? No, but it's just the way it is.

Perhaps that will change in time as more and more boys and men adopt more feminine characteristics. Perhaps this is just a hump we have to get over, to water down rigid gender roles. It will take time. Most of us (myself included) may not even live to see it. But I like to think that eventually, we will be defined as individuals, each with our own unique characteristics and contributions, and will no longer have to squeeze into little boxes for this and that.

[0] The politics of transgender issues can be quite nasty and will certainly open the child up to some pretty ugly sides of humanity. I'd hate to think I had to endure that at such a young age. Imagine being under ten years old, and virtually everyone you meet in public [1] thinks your sick, disgusting, a disgrace, etc. Might as well add chronic depression and maybe PTSD to her list of ailments growing up. Don't be surprised if she commits suicide, many of them do. :(

[1] As in where I live, the southern American states. Folks around here are not very accepting of transgender people (child or adult) AT ALL.

[2] If you notice, while most crossdressers do not consider themselves transgender, and transgender people alike do not generally consider crossdressers part of their "group", when it comes to legal fights, lawyers, courts, etc do consider them one and the same. Look up any case where a simple, non-trans crossdresser brought up a discrimination suit, normally as the result of wrongful termination from a job.
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

Post by Grok »

Caultron wrote: When confronted with new information or ideas, human beings try to integrate them with what they already know. And in this case, what they already know are drag queens and transsexuals, and so that's where they slot any boy who wants to wear a skirt or dress.
Or label the boy as "gay".
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

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I found the Wikipedia articles to be mind boggling. They make me feel like I am a bland conformist.

Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

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I know that we on this site are pretty well-versed in the transgender literature but that article was too much for me. I had to keep stopping to think of what the terms meant. Consequently I didn't even get half-way. I know what Grok meant. I feel almost normal. :lol:
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Sinned wrote:I know what Grok meant. I feel almost normal. :lol:
What do you mean "almost" normal? :dance:
We are normal! The human race is as different as night and day from each other there is no "normal". Each has their own genes and brain (although some do not know where it is) so no one is really normal in that sense. :flower:
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

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Fred in Skirts wrote:What do you mean "almost" normal? :dance:
We are normal! The human race is as different as night and day from each other there is no "normal". Each has their own genes and brain (although some do not know where it is) so no one is really normal in that sense. :flower:
I think that Fred nailed it here. T* is, put quite honestly, an anomaly that lies at the periphery of the human condition; the vast lot of us are, in Grok's words, bland conformists. However, that does not mean that we are sheep and that we must follow the lead unquestioningly; we are intelligent creatures, if we decide to fully engage that wonderful bit of carbon-based computing between our ears, and are more than capable of forging our own paths in life -- and if that path brings harm to no-one and brings us happiness (and, if we're lucky prosperity) then all is well.

Am I somehow "less than male" because I happen to detest denim in all its forms? I assert NO. The T* crowd -- and before anybody tries to jump down my throat on the matter, I fully understand that the phenomenon is very real but just likely more rare than pop-sci and the media would like us to believe -- is not our friend in this regard because it muddies waters that should, rationally, be perfectly clear. After all, more women wear jeans than skirts and nobody bats an eyelash; I happen to detest rough and scratchy fabrics, but that makes me weird? What gives here? The juxtaposition makes no sense on the face of it.

So, every time we -- as plain old guys who happen to like nice fabrics and skirts -- invoke the T* world we're doing ourselves a disservice. Don't muddy waters that others are already muddying.
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

Post by Grok »

I have to comment that I don't particularly like denim for skirts. The fabric is okay for jeans, if you think of jeans as work clothes-then you want a tough fabric.
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

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Grok wrote:
Caultron wrote: When confronted with new information or ideas, human beings try to integrate them with what they already know. And in this case, what they already know are drag queens and transsexuals, and so that's where they slot any boy who wants to wear a skirt or dress.
Or label the boy as "gay".
Yes, that too. When in a state of confusion, any stereotype will do.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

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Fred, if you really get to know me then you'll know what I mean by almost. As a bit of a loner and a maverick in many regards - I was never a sheep - I can never say that I was normal. MOH will attest to this. I was generally, left to my own devices, wearing something or other that was not usual for my age group. For a while I wore cravats which were considered old men's gear or a trilby, blue, or something odd even just in colour as in yellow. Just being me. So a skirt or dress wouldn't be out of the ordinary and MOH should have expected it.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Sinned wrote:Fred, if you really get to know me then you'll know what I mean by almost. As a bit of a loner and a maverick in many regards - I was never a sheep - I can never say that I was normal. MOH will attest to this. I was generally, left to my own devices, wearing something or other that was not usual for my age group. For a while I wore cravats which were considered old men's gear or a trilby, blue, or something odd even just in colour as in yellow. Just being me. So a skirt or dress wouldn't be out of the ordinary and MOH should have expected it.
Sinned, I would really like to get to know you better but the distance between us is far to great for a drop by for tea and conversation. I would like to get to know all of the citizens of SkirtCafe a lot better. But the best I can do is go by the things you write and that sometimes can get to be pretty confusing for this worn out old brain of mine. :lol: After 75 years of being forced to toe the line and then suddenly breaking free of the bonds my poor mind is overwhelmed sometimes.
I would also like to get to meet your wife she sounds interesting for sure. :D

Fred
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
Always be yourself because the people that matter don’t mind and the ones that mind don’t matter.
nuro
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

Post by nuro »

Hi!
You guys did well by withdrawing your son from school.
Thanks
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

Post by denimini »

Typical of the news media; tens of thousands don't withdraw their kids from school and the one couple that does gets the attention, as if it is endemic. That is that couples's perogative and their kids will eventually leave home on good terms or bad and not necessarily with their parents attitudes. It is rather sad but not newsworthy and certainly not something I would not get hot under my Peter Pan collar about. I was briefly withdrawn from school because they were teaching religious instruction without any alternative.
Last edited by denimini on Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

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denimini wrote:...We at SC are also the one in a thousand (or ten thousand of more) and most of us would abhor that sort of attention. "Man goes to football match in a skirt!"
I wear skirts to professional hockey games and as I recall, oldsalt1 has worn one to a professional baseball game at least once. I assume there are others. It's no different than anywhere else. Like, no one checked me against the walls or anything.

Down there in Oz don't you have people going to games in face paint and blue man suits and goofy hats and various other outrageous costumes? I know I've seen guys dressesd as the Statue of Liberty and in bridal gowns and in superhero costumes in the team colors and with a team-logo blanket as the cape. So I should worry that my skirt is just too weird?

Standing in front of a urinal and pulling up my skirt in a crowded public washroom was a little weird the first couple of times but I got over it.

If some reporter wants to interview you either decline or (more fun) sum up your confidence, accept, and play it straight. I've been on TV several times in zoomed-in crowd shots and in interviews for the evening news, both with no ill effects.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Couple Withdraw Their Son From School

Post by Sinned »

There has been a trend for a few years of spectators attending cricket Test Matches dressed up to show some sort of theme. And it could be anything - dresses, St George, cats, face painting. Owt as they would say in Yorkshire. It won't be long before it spreads to other sports.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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