John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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mugman
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John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by mugman »

Just sat through a Piers Morgan rant on John Lewis stores putting 'Boys and girls' labels on all kids'clothing, not as separate genders. This was on Good Morning Britain on ITV.I've never been a fan of Morgan and his machine gun interviews...cutting off answers to his questions before the interviewee has uttered two words in answer.
But quite useless having any argument with the man and his louder than life opinions.
A poll resulted in 15per cent for John Lewis's decision, and 85 per cent against.

Pete
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by Sinned »

Pete, I absolutely DETEST that man, can't even say his name, spit, and won't watch any programme with him in it. So for me to see him on the morning tele I'd have to be tied to the bed with my eyelids propped open.

But there was an article in the weekend papers about it. But then didn't another retail shop in London do the same last year, I recall. Why the backlash - all the store is doing is let the children and parents choose the garments without the stigma of it being labelled for boy or for girl. What's the problem.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by mugman »

I ended up shouting at the TV screen every time Morgan interrupted the interviewee who wasn't on his side, yet allowed the other person, who was on his side, have her say in full. Talk about biased opinions. As an interviewer he is bottom of the scale of professionalism as far as I'm concerned, and only likes the sound of his own voice. He was off screen on holiday for a few weeks, which was more a holiday for the viewers I suspect. I don't bother to watch the programme usually, but caught the topic while switching channels, and wanted to see how the issue was dealt with.

If a kid wants to wear a skirt because he likes the look of it, why on earth not? Who cares what Morgan or any others think. It's none of their business.

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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by JoePublic »

Piers Morgan blows hot and cold, he is a journalist and as such will say what he thinks we want to hear. A few months ago, he was in a kilt, where he made a crude joke about Lorraine sitting on his face...

This was on LBC radio as well, what most dont know is that John Lewis as a concession / department store doesn't have one defined girlswear or boyswear section, but each concession such as Warehouse, Zara, Miss Selfridge, Hugo Boss etc. have their own individual clothes rails for either mens or ladieswear within their department. The only other John Lewis brand I know is Waitrose, which is food, unless they are copying the likes of ASDA (Wal-Mart) and selling clothes there too.

From what I have seen of skirts for men aside from kilts is they cost a fortune :shock: so I will buy skirts from the womens section (if that still exists in these crazy times) :doh: :hmmm:
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by pleated »

mugman wrote:Just sat through a Piers Morgan rant on John Lewis stores putting 'Boys and girls' labels on all kids'clothing, not as separate genders. This was on Good Morning Britain on ITV.I've never been a fan of Morgan and his machine gun interviews...cutting off answers to his questions before the interviewee has uttered two words in answer.
But quite useless having any argument with the man and his louder than life opinions.
A poll resulted in 15per cent for John Lewis's decision, and 85 per cent against.

Pete
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The interview can be seen at-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eUBgyxBQ04
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by SkirtsDad »

It had the potential to be informative, but was completely wrecked.

Rather interesting to know who is plagiarising whom... Caroline Farrow's words all appear in this article by Laura Perrins:
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/lau ... ign=buffer
Why the change of labelling is deemed by Laura to be reason enough to boycott John Lewis is beyond me.
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by Sinned »

Things will die down. Shopping habits are difficult to change as the Marketing people will tell you. Any boycott will be short-lived and everyone will get used to the new labelling. I don't think JL will be worried, As has been said There's no such thing as bad publicity.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by rivegauche »

I am unable to understand this backlash. Surely if you don't approve of your son wearing a dress you don't buy him one. John Lewis may be offering you a choice but you are the one making it. For my part I will go out of my way to patronise John Lewis, even though I was interrupted DURING trying on a skirt by some supervisor who said men can't try things on in the women's changing room. Before or after OK but not during! This was their Edinburgh store - their other stores are more sensible. I reckon John Lewis should extent the philosophy of their childrens wear to all their clothing, but it is good to see a move in the right direction.
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by crfriend »

rivegauche wrote:[...] I was interrupted DURING trying on a skirt by some supervisor who said men can't try things on in the women's changing room. Before or after OK but not during! [...]
This facet, alone, is enough to form the basis of a personal boycott and strenuous opposition to others patronising the establishment. There are firms that I will have nothing to do with, in any capacity, and state so quite fervently. Some of these date back to the late 1970s. All of the objections have to do with ethical, legal, and/or physical reasons -- and are entirely non-negotiable. If I got badgered in the act of trying something on by some self-anointed little tin god I'd tell him -- and his little establishment -- to go to the damnation of their particular choice and not have anything to do with them ever again. Some behaviours are just unacceptable. Full stop.

A very public apology -- and assurance that the little tin god had got the sack and been blackballed -- in writing and in the press -- might, just might, temper my sentiment. However, once wounded, humans tend to stay wounded, if only psychologically.
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by oldsalt1 »

crfriend wrote:A very public apology -- and assurance that the little tin god had got the sack and been blackballed -- in writing and in the press -- might, just might, temper my sentiment. However, once wounded, humans tend to stay wounded, if only psychologically.
I disagree the supervisior may have made a timing error but his motive was correct. He did not say that he couldn't try on the skirt he just said he couldn't do it in the ladies dressing room That's why they have ladies and men's dressing rooms.
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

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oldsalt1 wrote:
crfriend wrote:A very public apology -- and assurance that the little tin god had got the sack and been blackballed -- in writing and in the press -- might, just might, temper my sentiment. However, once wounded, humans tend to stay wounded, if only psychologically.
I disagree the supervisior may have made a timing error but his motive was correct. He did not say that he couldn't try on the skirt he just said he couldn't do it in the ladies dressing room That's why they have ladies and men's dressing rooms.
Respectfully, I disagree. If there was a stated policy that strictly segregates by sex the fitting-rooms then the staff should have been aware of it and the incident avoided by the notion of "before" (as per rivegauche's post). A reminder after the fact -- to the fitting-room attendant -- would have been appropriate as well, as, perhaps, the attendant wasn't aware of the policy. However, a direct interruption whilst perhaps partially disrobed is entirely unacceptable. At no point should the customer been challenged unless there was something potentially criminal going on. Recall that the (potential) customer may not be aware of Company Policy when it comes to such matters.

Put yourself there and contemplate it for a bit. I can deal with a whole lot of inanity under normal circumstances, but it it happens when I'm vulnerable then my tolerance level diminishes most dramatically indeed.
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by oldsalt1 »

Stop with the fancy words and cut the crap it was the ladies dressing room and he shouldn't have gone in there in the first place . If your daughter was in there would you be comfortable with a man walking in there or would you expect the store management to do something about it immediately did he barge in on him or did he knock on the dressing roomdoor
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

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oldsalt1 wrote:Stop with the fancy words and cut the crap it was the ladies dressing room and he shouldn't have gone in there in the first place .
Points of order, sir. For one, "ladies" haven't existed for a century -- if ever in the USA; we have fauxmen now. Two, if you're flustered by "fancy words" please spend a few bucks at your local bookseller, purchase a dictionary, and avail yourself of it. The English-speaking world will thank you for that. Three, there didn't seem to be any intervention before the fact.
If your daughter was in there would you be comfortable with a man walking in there or would you expect the store management to do something about it immediately did he barge in on him or did he knock on the dressing roomdoor
I don't have a daughter, nor any other offspring, so that question is irrelevant save for that fact that if I did they'd be aware of how to comport themselves not just in normal situations but also in stressful and unfamiliar ones. These are skills that children need to learn so they can thrive in the wild and woolly world of "adulthood".

These are no longer the 1950s.
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

Post by oldsalt1 »

crfriend wrote: Points of order, sir. For one, "ladies" haven't existed for a century -- if ever in the USA;
we have fauxmen now. Two, if you're flustered by "fancy words" please spend a few
bucks at your local bookseller, purchase a dictionary, and avail yourself of it.
The English-speaking world will thank you for that. Three, there didn't seem to be
any intervention before the fact.
The only apology that is due is from you to Moons wife, and the other ladies that frequent this site.
I am sure they take grave offense at being referred to as fauxmen.

What I am frustrated with fancy words is when people use them to turn the person,
who committed the initial infraction, into the victim
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Re: John Lewis degenderizing kids' clothing labels

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oldsalt1 wrote:The only apology that is due is from you to Moons wife and the other ladies that frequent this site [...]
I'll grant that, and offer an apology. However, the classical definition of same is entirely dead, and potentially rightfully so. So, also, likely, is the classical definition of "gentleman". If any of the above are alive today then they surely are a dying breed.
What I am frustrated with fancy words is when people use them to turn the person who committed the initial infraction into the victim
See "dictionary" and proper reading of what was presented as fact (be it true or not, as we do not necessarily know so) at the point of writing.
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