What makes a skirt manly v feminine

[GerdG]

It is a fair question. I agree with many here that logically clothing styles are genderless. Assuming you, like myself, live in a society with cultural and fashion conventions and wish to navigate that while exercising some individuality or freedom; then I offer the following:

Masculine skirts -
Belt loops (a nice sense of security)
Large pockets (great)
Dull colours and unpatterned except for tartan or camo. (Duh)
Long pleats are OK
frayed hem is OK
Heavy fabric
Not too much flare
Front fly zipper (what for?)
Length just above knee to just below knee
Kilt or kilt style

Feminine:
Bright and cheerful
Light and floaty material (yay what fun)
Small or fake pockets (damn)
No belt loops (assuming a small waist and large hips)
Frills, ruffles and kick pleats
Flared hem
Side or rear fastening
Length just below crotch to just above floor

For bravery you get 20% for wearing a skirt in the first place and an extra 10% for each of the items in the second list

I very much agree with you. I have, however, a few questions:
Are shorter than just above knee skirts and kick pleats more/too feminine?

I show you an example:

#1. Short black skirt with kick pleats.


#2. The same skirt, close-up. Feminine? Too feminine?

I have some other questions too, illustrated by examples:


#3. Short denim skirt with buttons all way down. More feminine than a "normal" closed denim skirt?


#4. Does the skirt appear more feminine when worn with knee socks?


#5. Short denim skirt with zipper all way down. Is a such zipper less or more feminine than buttons (#3 and #4) or doesn't it make any difference?


#6. Dark blue short and very wide skirt (skater). Too feminine, feminine or OK masculine?


#7. Grey short and very wide skirt (skater). Does the structure of the material make any difference compared to the skirt above (#6)?

[Sinned]

GerdG, none of the skirts you pictured look feminine. I say that because I have multiple examples of these in my wardrobe. I love skater skirts with the large hem to waist ratios and like the feel of the hem material on my legs as I am walking. I have button down skirts in denim and other materials. I love pleats, particularly the box pleats that you show. I don't have a skirt with a full-length zip in the front but that's just because I haven't seen one my size at the right price. As a man, and as you do, they are suitable wear for us and I would wear any of them. Good pictures, btw and good examples of how wearing socks can look good with skirts.

[oldsalt1]

I think all of the skirts are fine. Me with my constant knee socks I especially like those outfits. Just as an opinion for some reason the button down and the full zipper tend to be more feminine. This has nothing to do with the length which I think is fine. But for some reason they just seem a little more delicate.They would be more fitting for a craft fair than a hardware store. Just an opinion I would wear any of them.

[denimini]

I very much agree with you. I have, however, a few questions:
Are shorter than just above knee skirts and kick pleats more/too feminine?
I have some other questions too, illustrated by examples:

None of those look feminine .............. with those legs!
Really, they all look fine to me and none that I wouldn't be willing to wear in public.
The list was a bit tongue in cheek as it was describing what fitted in with conventional thinking with male garment being practical and boring and female; varied, cheerful and good fun.
My choice, like your pics is a mix to suit onself.
A favourite combination of mine is a mini with belt loops, pockets and kick pleats. I like kick pleats as they offer extra freedom of movement and discretion when seated whilst still allowing conventional pockets, etc. - a bit decorative too.
I have a few button-down and zip-down skirts too but I find that they and not good for motor cars, often scratching the paint when cleaning the windscreen or checking oil.
A few of my favs bought on eBay:

Ted-Baker-Jean-Skirt-Grey-Brushed-Cotton-Mini_s.jpg

Hydraulic-Blue-Stretch-Denim-mini-skirt-size_s.jpg

BNWT-ELEMENT-Skater-Skirt-A-Line-_57s.jpg

I am sorry but the weather is a bit chilly to model minis at present.

[Grok]

As for choosing a garment to wear, I think plausibility is a good criterion.

Does a particular garment look plausible on you?

[GerdG]

Does a particular garment look plausible on you?

Especially this might be difficult. Are we always realistic when looking at us selves in the mirror?

[denimini]

I think plausible has the same subjectivity and personal value variables as many other criterion.
If I am happy with the look in a mirror or selfie, then I am happy to go public. Whether I am deluded or not, I will be confident and as such will give the right cue to any onlookers.

[crfriend]

Are we always realistic when looking at us selves in the mirror?

Mirrors lie. Full stop. This is why I advocate for using photography instead. It needn't be anything fancy, but should include enough background to cause the eye some distraction and make a shot reasonably interesting, and should catch the entire subject in frame. The photograph will give you another person's perspective rather than your own perspective of you in a mirror.

Reflections in store-fronts and other large reflective surfaces can be useful got gaining an appreciation of how motion affects the look of a skirt. It was only through that technique that I learned that my red petticoat can peek out from under by black tiered skirt when in motion -- and the look was actually very good and quite dramatic. The skirt is long enough to completely hide the petti when not in motion, but at speed there would be flashes of red around the hem every once in a while. So, motion also plays into things.

[denimini]

Mirrors lie. Full stop.

Yes, I also had that book read to me when I was little.
I use 2 mirrors to check out the back view - which I assume is not a mirror image.
I agree that a broader picture gives a better idea of looks. Particularly an unexpected glimpse in a shop window, momentarily seeing yourself almost as a stranger.

[crfriend]

I use 2 mirrors to check out the back view - which I assume is not a mirror image.

Correct. What you're seeing is the reverse of a reverse -- which is to say, normal -- image.

I agree that a broader picture gives a better idea of looks. Particularly an unexpected glimpse in a shop window, momentarily seeing yourself almost as a stranger.

(Bolding mine,) This is precisely the point. We've grown over the years inured to seeing ourselves in the mirror -- to the point where the mirror-image guides our hands when we do things "in the mirror". We're not necessarily used to seeing ourselves in photographs, much less as moving images in a shop window. The more we "appear as strangers" to ourselves, the better a glimpse we get as to the viability of a look. (Mentally and emotionally we're much harsher with strangers than we are with ourselves; the key is to be critical.)

[Caultron]

I think plausible has the same subjectivity and personal value variables as many other criterion.
If I am happy with the look in a mirror or selfie, then I am happy to go public. Whether I am deluded or not, I will be confident and as such will give the right cue to any onlookers.

Plausible. Interesting word to use.

But I guess I feel the same way. I get dressed, look at myself in the mirror, and think, "OK, it's odd seeing a man in a skirt, but if it weren't, is this how a well-dress man would look?"

[Daryl]

Are shorter than just above knee skirts and kick pleats more/too feminine?

With regards to length I think looking masculine versus feminine is much less an issue than that other highly social construction decency. In fact, short can look very masculine considering how all historical examples have women wearing skirts to the ankle or lower and the short skirts are always on men (and often on men carrying swords and shields). Indeed, short skirts show off muscle rather than hiding it, thus giving a more masculine overall impression.

Miniskirts are associated with females specifically by being associated with flirtation with exposure, something society accepts from women more readily than it accepts from men. Words like "flirty" and "daring" and "hot" used with regards to miniskirts say it all. Someone seeing a man in a miniskirt may wonder if he is trying to flirt with exposure as females do with miniskirts. This brings a sense of femininity to the act of wearing a miniskirt, perhaps, but not necessarily to the "look" of it. I think, however, any potential disapproval would not come first from a sense that wearing a miniskirt is too feminine for a man, but from the sense that is is too sexually exposing for a man.

How many sexual social norms we want to challenge at once is a whole nuther question.

[denimini]

Dirty, not flirty in a mini

20160429_153203_HDR_diry-mini_crs.jpg

Relaxing after a hard day's work, showing no more leg than the typical "Stubbies" shorts.

E-PL5_P4172723crm.jpg

[Grok]

her.

I was more looking at it from the standpoint that if we want to make a massive change in the way skirts can be worn mainstream, and viewed by everyone in society, it may potentially be easier to start with getting as many men wearing as masculine skirts as possible, as this would be easier for society to accept initially, then as society comes around to the idea and is more used to seeing this in their everyday lives, and it then comes across as 'normal', then start to push the boundaries with the more feminine styles etc.

At least some of the characteristics listed seem (loosely) based on today's menswear. In effect, basing skirts on mens trousers, to minimize cognitive dissonance.

I thought about this, and also about the skirt-over-trousers Bloomers worn in the mid-19th century. It occurred to me that both strategies are/were Training Wheels for Society. Preparing Society for change with a transitional step.

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Good grief Grok and s1893,

You're giving me a migraine over your agonizing over what "society" (whoever that may be) will and won't accept and how best can we get more men to wear skirts so we'll feel more comfortable and ...

Get over it! Thanks to the Gay Liberation Movement that transformed into the Pride Movement and is now the Equality Movement most Americans accept and support diversity. I'm more than accepted in my church and my apartment project; as the "Cheers" theme goes, "everyone knows my name." Over the last several months I've only rarely worn pants. No problem.

Don't let Trump's and the most despicable of his followers' bullying fool you; most people are accepting and supportive of people who are different.

This afternoon I went to the light rail station where that deranged bigot stabbed three men, two of them fatally, because they stood up to his hateful speech that was directed at those two teenaged girls (Both of them were black and one wore a hijab. The incident made national news.) The tributes to those three heroes simply DO NOT END. There are messages in chalk (Using paint would be vandalism and what kind of tribute would that be?) all along the ramp and stairs to the station and back, on the brick walls of the building adjoining the station, banners proclaiming "Heroes Square," and more flowers than a Kentucky Derby winner gets! On my way back to my car, I passed a young woman in her late teens- early twenties with shaven temples, dyed hair, black cut-offs and tee, and a face riddled with piercings. She made a point of catching up with me to tell me she liked my long-sleeved; Calvin Klein; red, white and coral; graphic-patterned wrapdress. I expect it'll be years before she considers wearing something like that herself. In the same vein, I was at a corner downtown at lunchtime Friday in my burgundy suit from Paris setting up a photo of a kilted bagpiper when a gentleman turned around to call back to me, "Beautiful dress sir." (Yes, he meant it.)

Any question as to where Portland's sympathies lie?

Stop worrying about how to impress others to copy you; the best way you can do that is, to the best of your ability, present your genuine self without doubt, (visible) fear or self-consciousness. You're just wearing YOUR clothes.

Do that and the rest will take care of itself.