Cognitive Dissonance

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Daryl
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Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Daryl »

Seeing some of the recent pictures of men in skirts in the topic 'Sightings "in the wild"' made me realise that the cognitive dissonance I still feel when seeing a stereotypically feminine style on a man is weakening quite a bit. It may never fully disappear at my age but it does make me wonder if simple familiarity with the sight of men in more femme styles doesn't actually serve the "cause" more powerfully than the sight of men in more macho styles.

My reasoning goes like so. Men wearing skirts AS men but including more stereotypically feminine styles will gradually reduce the cognitive dissonance felt by everyone at merely seeing a man in a skirt. That cognitive dissonance might actually be a bigger barrier to the normalisation of one-pipe garments for men than any presumed barriers based on sexual norms. The latter certainly exist, and men realise that they are actually more threatening to skirt-wearing men individually, but perhaps that realisation skews our perception of what "normalisation" actually entails.

Basically, this is an argument for it being more of a fashion issue than a rights issue, when it comes to wide public acceptance. Whatcha think?
Daryl...
Big and Bashful
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Big and Bashful »

Just reading that gave me a headache!
I put a skirt on because I like the feel, I don't know how people's brains work, I don't attempt to analyse it, I barely know how my brain works!

I'm not clever but I can lift heavy weights!
I am the God of Hellfire! and I bring you truffles!
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Kirbstone
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Kirbstone »

Yes, B&B,
As an avid Dandy reader, I identify with Desperate Dan, but can't emulate him like you can.

Tom
Carpe Diem......Seize the Day !
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denimini
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by denimini »

Just fashion. Even those of us who dismiss fashion, there seems to be remnants surviving from an early brainwashing.
Some things are not fashion: Flat-Earthers weren't following a fashion but were ignorant; science prevailed. Same will be said about climate change deniers and advocates of atomc energy and weaponry, if there is anyone around to say it.
Preferences for particular foods or clothing is personal choice, based on science or not (health, sustainability). Some things become popular (fashionable?), like fondue dishes, and then fade away. Choosing to follow fashion or not is free choice, criticising others regarding their choice is ignorant.
I think clothing gets flack because it is visually exposed to many people, where food is not except to a few relatives or restaurant patrons "Yuk, see that man eating offal". You don't hear "I told you not to go near that man using a fondue dish".

Wearing a skirt is just a small part of a much broader choice of clothing and I wonder what is perceived as a greater digression, a man wearing a kahki cargo skirt or a man wearing a floral and frilly shirt.
I still feel slightly uncomfortable seeing a man in a very colourful and frilly dress, which annoys me as I know it is only conditioning (or whatever term you like to use) and I would like to wear more fun and cheerful clothes myself. It is difficult to purge oneself of a lifetime of stuff. I raise my hat to those who have.
I do think it helps seeing more and more men wearing traditionally feminine styled clothing. It must be working as I got so used to seeing Moonshadow in nice colourful dresses, that I was shocked to see him in pants.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
Grok
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Grok »

Members are surmounting the biggest of hurdles-a man in one pipe. We are breaking the most rigid of taboos.

But this is likely because we are particularly interested in doing so.

I have to admit that I am still subject to earlier conditioning. I feel cognitive dissonance if a man wears frilly clothes. Or jewelry that is usually associated only with women, such as ear rings or necklaces.

A Hawaiian shirt is about the most floral garment I can accept on a man, without dissonance.

I still half expect a man's clothes to be dull or drab in terms of color.
Kilty
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Kilty »

Daryl wrote:Seeing some of the recent pictures of men in skirts in the topic 'Sightings "in the wild"' made me realise that the cognitive dissonance I still feel when seeing a stereotypically feminine style on a man is weakening quite a bit. It may never fully disappear at my age but it does make me wonder if simple familiarity with the sight of men in more femme styles doesn't actually serve the "cause" more powerfully than the sight of men in more macho styles.

My reasoning goes like so. Men wearing skirts AS men but including more stereotypically feminine styles will gradually reduce the cognitive dissonance felt by everyone at merely seeing a man in a skirt. That cognitive dissonance might actually be a bigger barrier to the normalisation of one-pipe garments for men than any presumed barriers based on sexual norms. The latter certainly exist, and men realise that they are actually more threatening to skirt-wearing men individually, but perhaps that realisation skews our perception of what "normalisation" actually entails.

Basically, this is an argument for it being more of a fashion issue than a rights issue, when it comes to wide public acceptance. Whatcha think?
I wouldn't think it over too much. For me, I like the look and feel of a pencil skirt,, it may be stereo-typically feminine, along with the items I wear my skirts with, i.e underwear and hosiery plus shoes, but for me, a skirt looks odd without a nice pair of tights or cute shoes. There's something nice about being able to change the appearance of your legs with a shade of blue, red or whatever colour they are, yet keep warm as you go out and about in your skirt. The same way you wouldn't just wear a kilt on it's own without a sporran, kilt socks and if you wish other accessories. The thing is, not to look odd, being a "bloke in a skirt" doesn't mean you have to dress as a poorly dressed example. Going out in a denim skirt with sneakers is fine as it's an accepted look that girls also do, but the only alternative to skirts such as your own (I would have thought an A-Line is more feminine :roll: ) is the ubiquitous kilt, along with the questions of if you are Scottish or what tartan it is :wink:
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Caultron »

kilty wrote:...For me, I like the look and feel of a pencil skirt,, it may be stereo-typically feminine, along with the items I wear my skirts with, i.e underwear and hosiery plus shoes, but for me, a skirt looks odd without a nice pair of tights or cute shoes...
I like the look of hosiery and heels to go along with a skirt too, but that doesn't mean I have to be that way all the time.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Ray
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Ray »

I think that there is no doubt that increased exposure to men in skirts (etc) normalises the experience for the onlooker. What seems outlandish soon becomes assimilated and becomes, well, not quote the norm, but certainly within norms.

My wife doesn't bat an eyelid as I walk about in skirts and hosiery. She still doesn't understand the tights bit (like many women, she hates tights), but she can understand the comfort of a skirt. Therefore, the repeated exposure to my wearing these things (unconsciously too) means that my look has been normalised in her eyes.

Long may such trends continue.
Grok
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Grok »

Ray wrote:I think that there is no doubt that increased exposure to men in skirts (etc) normalises the experience for the onlooker. What seems outlandish soon becomes assimilated and becomes, well, not quote the norm, but certainly within norms.

.
Or, somewhat more broadly, if not a norm, at least what is within the limits of the acceptable.
Kilty
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Kilty »

Grok wrote:
Ray wrote:I think that there is no doubt that increased exposure to men in skirts (etc) normalises the experience for the onlooker. What seems outlandish soon becomes assimilated and becomes, well, not quote the norm, but certainly within norms.

.
Or, somewhat more broadly, if not a norm, at least what is within the limits of the acceptable.
The way Twitter or Instagram searches don't reveal many "OMG just seen a guy in a skirt" messages is because it has become the norm, or at least accepted behaviour. I think people have a "live-and-let-live-so-long-as-it-doesnt-bother-me" attitude, so it is not such a big deal as years gone by.
Big and Bashful
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Big and Bashful »

Kirbstone wrote:Yes, B&B,
As an avid Dandy reader, I identify with Desperate Dan, but can't emulate him like you can.

Tom
I love cow pie, just haven't found a butcher who makes one complete with horns!
I am the God of Hellfire! and I bring you truffles!
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by crfriend »

Big and Bashful wrote:I love cow pie, just haven't found a butcher who makes one complete with horns!
McDonalds. However, they grind the horns up really well.
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Gregg1100
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Gregg1100 »

You can get Cow Pie from the New Inn pub, aka The Hungry Horse at Langstone, Newport Gwent. Complete with pastry horns.
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Kirbstone
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Kirbstone »

Tut-tut. Pastry horns indeed! Do they only serve wimps in Newport? :cyclops:

Thanks for that info. Gregg, Probably worth a visit when next I'm peckish in S. Wales.

Tom
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Daryl
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Re: Cognitive Dissonance

Post by Daryl »

Big and Bashful wrote:Just reading that gave me a headache!
I put a skirt on because I like the feel, I don't know how people's brains work, I don't attempt to analyse it, I barely know how my brain works!

I'm not clever but I can lift heavy weights!
Well, I often claim that I am strong like bull and smart like streetcar...
Daryl...
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