Cato fashions

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Barefoot Joe
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Re: Cato fashions

Post by Barefoot Joe »

skirtingtheissue wrote:In stores that cater only to women (in the traditional sense), I am sometimes offered the use of an employee restroom or stockroom to try things on, as an alternative to the awkward situation of a man in the women's fitting rooms.
The employees restroom? A stockroom? :shock: I find that even more humiliating than being plainly said that I can't use the fitting rooms because company police says so.
"Yes, try and buy our stuff, but keep away from our real customers!" :roll:

I think my initial response would have been: "Well, it's OK if i can't use the fitting rooms. I'll try them on right here in the aisle..." :wink:

The case of Gavin Grimm just comes to my mind, the TG boy who was denied to use the boys restroom in his school: "If they’re not fixed like a man, they should not use the men’s bathroom".
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Re: Cato fashions

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:An increasing part of me is just wanting to let this go. Just be done with it, keep the three skirts and just don't go back. The whole ordeal has been somewhat taxing on my morale, and I don't really think anything positive or productive will come out of it, it's just going to drive my bitterness further. If the news is any indicator, we have a very long way to go before we will know true fairness and equality, it probably won't be seen in my lifetime. I'll wind up biting off more than I can chew, and getting the kind of press that I don't want.
This, in all probability, is the wisest path -- and it's not one charted by cowardice, either, but rather by reason and efficacy. In all things, something the man must always beware of is that he cannot "become part of the problem", for once he does -- through ignorance or inexperience -- then things get out of control really quickly. Affect change where it is possible and wise to do so; by all means take the occasional leap into the unknown if there is a reasonable expectation of reward in return for risk, but do not unnecessarily do so and expect or demand a rescue from it (this goes for anything from wearing a skirt to the local mall or sailing solo across the Atlantic).

Choose your battles -- and choose them wisely. Nobody is going to be looking out for you, and I've yet to encounter anything like a "guardian angel"; you're on your own, and try not to drag anybody else into the fray -- even if they seem willing. (At least if you're not paying them; if you are paying them, they're mercenaries.)
Perhaps my best course of action should be just to continue to wear my skirts, support businesses that support me, and continue to be a positive representative of men in skirts, and equal rights for men in general. I really don't want to come off as some "angry misogynist", and I know that's what's going to wind up happening.
Wise. You have to play the external game by society's rules, and sometimes those look really stupid. The way to get them changed is not to attempt a frontal assault, but rather to make others see how stupid the rules really are and eventually the rules will have to change because more and more people will quietly resist them. Not doing business with a particular retailer is one way that this can happen in order to affect a change. Your lack of business won't hurt the retailer at all; 50 folks' lack of same might. A casual mention in conversation of the hassle you got when you purchased your skirts will hold more weight than shouting it from atop a soap-box on the town common.

Play to your strengths (and play by your internal rules, always), not against somebody else's.
Last edited by crfriend on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Idiotic error in negation... I need to proofread better.
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Stu
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Re: Cato fashions

Post by Stu »

It is interesting to see feminists are mentioned on here as against equality.

I now teach at a university and I have been tasked with teaching certain aspects of critical discourse analysis which includes feminist ideas and theories. To teach this, I had to update and deepen my understanding of modern feminist theories and thinking and, like most people, I had assumed mainstream feminism was an equality movement. Wow! Was I wrong! It is no such thing. I lifted up the stone and what I saw shocked and disgusted me. What I found was a movement which has ceased any pretence of being concerned with equality of the sexes but rather is rabidly misandric, totalitarian and, to be frank, repugnant. Don't get me wrong; I know that many, and probably most, people who call themselves feminists are not like that, but the movers and shakers in the movement certainly are and any reading of feminist theory shows this. There are some of the old equality feminists around - people who now call themselves "equity feminists" - and they include such as Camille Paglia and Christina Hoff Sommers, but they have been marginalised by the mainstream, both second wave and third wave, and are pretty hated by them. The radicals have taken over - they dominate - and they are openly hostile to any notions of equality.

Albeit that our interests lie within a relatively narrow focus of equality, we are still an equality movement. Mainstream feminism is absolutely not - and they are not our friends.
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jeffreyrichards2015
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Re: Cato fashions

Post by jeffreyrichards2015 »

I live in the UK and so the legislation may be different - however, a few years ago I contacted every single retailer of ladies-wear in a large shopping mall local to me to try and find out their policy on allowing me to try on 'women's' clothes in their store.
The results were very varied ranging from "come on in, it's fine" to "no, go away" (paraphrased!).

I have included my findings in another thread so as not the muddy the waters too much in this discussion and may be useful for UK shoppers.
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Caultron
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Re: Cato fashions

Post by Caultron »

It the women's dressing rooms open directly to the sales area, I see no reason that access should be limited.

But if there's one entrance to a large room that has smaller stalls opening onto that, it may be common practice for women to leave the stalls partially dressed. Perhaps they entered wearing a dress, for example, but are trying on a skirt, and want their friend's advice about the skirt. Or perhaps they want to see themselves from a longer distance than they can in the dressing both. Young women may come out for assistance in lingerie fittings. And although I don't recall having seen this for a while, the dressing rooms may only have curtains and not solid doors.

Now, perhaps some of these barriers shouldn't exist. Perhaps all stores, even those who only target women, should have at least one stall that a man could use. But given what I presume is the current low level of demand, regulations of that sort probably aren't likely.

A restroom may be an alternative, except that you probably won't have a decent mirror, the garment is more likely to get dirty or wet, and any security measures at the dressing rooms would be bypassed. Or they may tell you they don't have a men's room, only ladies, and it may be a large room with two or more stalls.

I congratulate your militancy, though, and I'm looking forward to hearing what sort of replies you get from your letter.
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moonshadow
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Re: Cato fashions

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Barefoot Joe wrote:The employees restroom? A stockroom? :shock: I find that even more humiliating than being plainly said that I can't use the fitting rooms because company police says so.
"Yes, try and buy our stuff, but keep away from our real customers!" :roll:
Well.... yeah I have to admit, a part of me feels that way. There is a mentality in the U.S. that all men are rapist, wife beaters, peeping Tom's, etc. Now of course, the fact is saying all men are these things is about as fair as saying all women are misandrist. However at the end of the day, I just don't have the clout to challenge such a notion. A man wearing a skirt is taboo enough around here. That already sends a signal to the public that I'm trying to molest a child. Then add the fact that I'm in a women's only clothing store, in a deeply conservative southern town, NOW I have the audacity to use a fitting room meant for princesses.... well.... like I said, I just don't have the clout. I'm but one man living in a society of rapist, child molesting men, and women who do no wrong.
Barefoot Joe wrote:I think my initial response would have been: "Well, it's OK if i can't use the fitting rooms. I'll try them on right here in the aisle..." :wink:
An interesting idea, and actually maybe workable if one were to enter the store in leggings. It would be easy enough to just slip a skirt on over them, however let me tell you how that would ACTUALLY go down in the good old Confederate States of America.

If a woman were to try that in a mens only clothing store, she could pitch a fit, scream and hollar. The sidewalks would line up with other women protesting the clear sexism the mens store is demonstrating. The CEO of the store would intervene, apologize to the woman, and hence forth, all of the stores in the chain would have women's fitting rooms fit for a queen! A monetary settlement would be awarded for "pain and suffering". Tears would flow on Oprah, Dr. Phill, Ellen, etc. on this very traumatic experience. The newspaper would read LOCAL WOMAN IS A HERO FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS! With an appropriate article to follow.

If I were to do that CALMLY.... IN LEGGINGS. The police would be called. I would be quietly escorted out of the store in handcuffs. Any onlookers that have gathered to this point would surly be shouting out homophobic obscenities, I would be told I'm going to burn in hell. I would be arrested, and a jury would convict me on what ever charge was cooked up. The newspaper would read "CROSSDRESSING MAN ARRESTED ON MULTIPLE CHARGES" - Abingdon VA: A local man is being held without bond on multiple charges, among them indecent exposure, inciting a riot, disturbing the peace, and other charges to follow. Witnesses say the crossdressing man entered a local CATO clothing store with the intent of gaining entrance into a woman's only fitting room in plain view of children. When the store refused the accused clear attempt to gain access to strict areas of women's privacy, he proceeded to change into the skirt in the store. Police showed up and arrested the man. Other patrons of the store are seeking justice, and are expected to bring a civil suit on the man for pain and suffering on account of the spectacle they witnessed. In response to this, several state and local lawmakers are drafting legislation that would make it a crime for men to be seen in public places wearing clothes not designed for their own gender.

Yep.... justice for all. This is why, I think I'm just going to let it go. I have made my grievance to the company, they probably don't care. But I will be happy to quietly spend my hard earned dollar in more accommodating stores. Someday the tide may turn, but I don't expect that any time soon.
Caultron wrote:It the women's dressing rooms open directly to the sales area, I see no reason that access should be limited.
I'm with you on that. I'm not really sure. I never got to actually see the rooms. If it were the other type of rooms (smaller stalls in a communal room) then I would have gladly used the restroom with their approval. Most buildings that I am aware of, if they only have one restroom, it's normally designed to be unisex. After all, some company employees, corporate people, etc may be male, and may visit stores in the field from time to time, they would need a place to pee too.

Well, like I said, I don't think I'm going to push it further than this. I've slept it off. I will admit, I felt like trash yesterday. Just "not right" for the remainder of the day. But today is a new day. I will bury this experience, and I'm glad I could make use of this site to bring awareness to this issue.
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Re: Cato fashions

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moonshadow wrote: If I were to do that CALMLY.... IN LEGGINGS. The police would be called. I would be quietly escorted out of the store in handcuffs. Any onlookers that have gathered to this point would surly be shouting out homophobic obscenities, I would be told I'm going to burn in hell. I would be arrested, and a jury would convict me on what ever charge was cooked up. The newspaper would read "CROSSDRESSING MAN ARRESTED ON MULTIPLE CHARGES" - Abingdon VA: A local man is being held without bond on multiple charges, among them indecent exposure, inciting a riot, disturbing the peace, and other charges to follow. Witnesses say the crossdressing man entered a local CATO clothing store with the intent of gaining entrance into a woman's only fitting room in plain view of children. When the store refused the accused clear attempt to gain access to strict areas of women's privacy, he proceeded to change into the skirt in the store. Police showed up and arrested the man. Other patrons of the store are seeking justice, and are expected to bring a civil suit on the man for pain and suffering on account of the spectacle they witnessed. In response to this, several state and local lawmakers are drafting legislation that would make it a crime for men to be seen in public places wearing clothes not designed for their own gender.
From what I can see, especially on Crossdressers.com, is there are far more men seeking to become women than women seeking to become men. There are some women who became men such as Chaz Bono, but there are far more instances of men becoming women (e.g., Caitlyn [Bruce] Jenner.

There is something definitely wrong in our society where there is such a discrepancy. I myself do not feel comfortable being a stereotypical man in our society - I take estrogen and I am developing a feminine figure.

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Re: Cato fashions

Post by pelmut »

JohnH wrote: From what I can see, especially on Crossdressers.com, is there are far more men seeking to become women than women seeking to become men.
Could this be because a man who wants to take on what we traditionally regard as the woman's rôle in life, has to look like a woman to be accepted; whereas a woman who wants to take on a man's rôle only needs to behave like a man and does not need to look like one? If society could accept feminine behaviour from male-looking people, some of the men who currently feel they have to to physically transition would be under less pressure to do so.
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Re: Cato fashions

Post by renesm1 »

pelmut wrote:
JohnH wrote: From what I can see, especially on Crossdressers.com, is there are far more men seeking to become women than women seeking to become men.
Could this be because a man who wants to take on what we traditionally regard as the woman's rôle in life, has to look like a woman to be accepted; whereas a woman who wants to take on a man's rôle only needs to behave like a man and does not need to look like one? If society could accept feminine behaviour from male-looking people, some of the men who currently feel they have to to physically transition would be under less pressure to do so.
I agree. If men could act in a more "feminine" manner that would save a lot of psychological distress felt by men, and save lots of healthcare too.
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Re: Cato fashions

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renesm1 wrote: I agree. If men could act in a more "feminine" manner that would save a lot of psychological distress felt by men, and save lots of healthcare too.
It feels so good since I folded, spindled, and mutilated my man card. Now I don´t have to dress, groom, or behave as a typical man. After all, my wife has said to me a number of times, ¨You are not a man¨. :)

Getting back to the Cato situation: I guess if I went to one and spoke with a feminine voice [not easy since I am a bass], passed myself off as a transgender woman, and was still denied use of a fitting room I could scream ¨Discrimination¨. :lol:

John
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Re: Cato fashions

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Just to follow up with the Cato thing.... there is, as of yet no news.

I am somewhat disappointed by the lack of any response, even a response defending the practice would have been better than no response at all. However it has barely been a week, and a holiday week at that, so that must be taken into consideration. Still holiday or not, the company I work for is pretty good at answering complaints within 24 hours. Perhaps it's a difficult letter to respond to. They may be trying to figure out who to defend their position without coming off as bigoted... Or not.

As far as my personal situation, and my thoughts on it, I have decided to keep the skirts. They have been detagged and are in my drawer, as I do really like them, I have not worn them yet, I've been thinking about saging them to purify the "bad vibe" (yes... a silly thing I do from time to time)

Cato had some pretty cool stuff, but personally I feel the styles at Misty Mountain Designs compliment my "inner self" more than the standard department store skirt. Certainly there is a place for plain Jane skirts too, but department stores with mens fitting room, as well as GoodWill should satisfy my desire when it comes time to purchase more regular skirts. In other words, although the plain Jane skirts are okay... I really like skirts that POP. The white skirt that I photographed myself in from MMD definitely has POP! Every time I take it out, it's a head turner, and I think only part of it is because I'm a man. I believe the skirt would be just as much a head turner on a woman.... it's just a rockin skirt all around!

I also purchased a similar one at the new GoodWill in Abingdon VA. I noted the tag says it came from Dress Barn. I didn't try it on, as I was pretty sure it would fit, and it does. I really like it, it has a mostly solid inner slip, and the skirt itself has little flower cut outs.

Link to photo from MMD: http://www.skirtcafe.org/forums/viewtop ... 05#p148706
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Re: Cato fashions

Post by whorton »

At this point it has been more than a year since you last update. I take it CATO, never bothered to foward any sort of a response? What of the other elected officials and feminist group you approached? Any response at all?

I would not expect anything from feminists as Stu explained above.

Interesting that the idea of equality is dominate here, are you content to give Cato a pass?

As you mentioned, one has to pick their battles, and this is a big one.
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Re: Cato fashions

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whorton wrote:At this point it has been more than a year since you last update. I take it CATO, never bothered to foward any sort of a response? What of the other elected officials and feminist group you approached? Any response at all?

I would not expect anything from feminists as Stu explained above.

Interesting that the idea of equality is dominate here, are you content to give Cato a pass?

As you mentioned, one has to pick their battles, and this is a big one.
Ahh... I near forgot about this thread!

Actually, aside from the note I sent Cato, I never sent anything to any of the lawmakers, feminist, etc. Which was probably all the better for it, for as it goes, later in early 2016 the whole trans-bathroom wars got started and I'm sure my little fitting room ordeal would have seemed quite petty in light of the other matters. Especially since I never identified as a "woman". Though I do wonder where Cato stands today now with all of the trans-awareness that has taken place since then.

Frankly, this thread was posted during the beginning of my male skirting journey. I guess I still had a good hard case of "white male privilege" at the time and wasn't used to being told "no". I was out to prove to the world that "this is me... hear me roar!" Since then I've made progress coming to peace with some of the double standards, prejudice, bigotry, etc. I simply avoid places like Cato now and focus on more equitable establishments, and I've found plenty of them. In fact, Cato is the only place I've visited with their head up their ass so to hell with 'em...

I've learned to not waste time on those type of establishments that judge based on what's between our legs. They literally make up about 5% of all businesses. It's so much satisfying to spend my money in the remaining 95% who embrace me and my style with open arms! Skirting is a lot more fun when you're not fighting all the damned time. My aim now is to enjoy myself and surround myself with kind supportive people and businesses.

Cato Fashions? No thank you... Besides I've gotten plenty of Cato's stuff off the GoodWill rack for a fraction of the price.

Yep... male skirting is not so political anymore for me... it's just something I like doing... it's Moon Shadow. Getting back to the lawmakers, feminist, etc... if they like me... great, if they don't... whatever. They are not my rulers and I don't owe them jack.

Hehe... I can remember getting all wigged out, bow my head, and stare at the floor when someone would give me a dirty look.... now I just look back and give them this face...
Image

Man, skirting is too fun and life's too short to give a sh_t about people and their petty hangups... :lol: They gotta problem with me... well, that's their problem! :D
-Andrea
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r.m.anderson
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Re: Cato fashions

Post by r.m.anderson »

On the other side of the coin - opposite anti-universe what of the woman wanting to try for size men$ jean$ and trouser$ pant$
and uses the MEN$ fitting room ?
Oh the scandal of it all - VPL exposure such pretties with lacy and all the fine feminine attributes ! OR then maybe nothing but a string !
Well I can tell you this there would be no Spanish Inquisition or drowning the witch - the store no doubt would roll out the red carpet
and change the street marque to emphasize that one-size-does-not-fit-all and all are welcome here !
But let a man use the woman's fitting room - horrors !!!

Yes there are work-arounds to the sexual fitting booth - but stores are so cheap now they don't have the staff to monitor the exception !

At least with Ebay I know the limitations and don't have to fight the clothing police experience !
"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: Cato fashions

Post by moonshadow »

Opposite anti-universe and women are the horn dogs that rape everything that stands erect! *nudge nudge* :lol: :wink: (pardon the pun! :shock: )

Fathers lock up your sons!
-Andrea
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