Skirts at work

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Caultron
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Re: Skirts at work

Post by Caultron »

Sinned wrote:Having slept on this for a day or two ( or night or two really as I don't as a rule sleep during the day except when at work and my mind wanders the ether ) I have decided on the following approach...
This looks like a good and safe plan. It won't earn you carte blanche to wear skirts at work but it won't get you a positive, "No," either, and it leaves room for future progress.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Sinned
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Re: Skirts at work

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If I get tolerance and don't get a "WTF" if I go into my store skirted then I feel that progress will have been made. You can tell that my expectations are now more realistic. Unfortunately there is only one part of the uniform that I can vary ( skirt or trousers ) as the top, fleece ( both with company name ), bottoms and shoes are fixed ( black, black, black and black ).
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Skirts at work

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Sinned wrote:Unfortunately there is only one part of the uniform that I can vary ( skirt or trousers ) as the top, fleece ( both with company name ), bottoms and shoes are fixed ( black, black, black and black ).
If the Company brand calls for black, then black it is. Roll with it, as black can actually be a pretty good look -- and timeless to boot.

The way to distinguish one's self if black is the uniform colour is to make sure that the uniform fits impeccably. Aside from the Company-issued items, one can also work with fabric pretty safely unless it winds up being something very flashy. Recall that your mission is to help the Company attain its goals -- everything else is an unnecessary distraction and should be avoided. If everybody else is in black denim, showing up in black velvet will likely cause a fuss. A black tweed, however, could well work and maybe -- just maybe -- black silk in the summer months but would definitely "push the envelope" a bit.

Every so often I'll go full-on with black -- and, as I say, it can look very sharp -- but usually it garners, "Men in Black" cracks or assorted references to the Johnny Cash song. Think Will Smith in Men in Black -- "The difference between you and me is I make this look good!"
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Dottie
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Re: Skirts at work

Post by Dottie »

Be open about it to your employer, I was with mine and given the nod with only one caveat recently introduced, that I may not be skirted when traveling by helicopter on company business ( flying offshore ) and that is a safety issue anyway.
My Boss'es attitude was and still is that if I have the gall to wear a skirt in the rufty tufty offshore oil industry
( insert Houston accent here ),

" Boy you aint afraid of nothing "

and I'm not, neither should you be.
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Re: Skirts at work

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Sinned wrote:[....] Realistically I would expect the answer in the negative because the role is very customer-facing and without explanations to each customer they will inevitably, left to their own devices, draw the wrong conclusions about my gender and sexuality. ...
I have two branches of Sainsbury's nearby and have visited one or the other of them about once a week for the past 10 years. I honestly couldn't tell you whether the women on the checkouts wear trousers or skirts (and I would be a bit more likely than the average customer to notice). Unless the type of checkout in your particular supermarket differs radically from those in Sainsbury's, I think it is highly unlikely that the customer would be able to see what you are wearing unless they make a very determined effort.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
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Sinned
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Re: Skirts at work

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The checkout areas are fairly open and we stand all the time. We also need to leave the checkout to change items and fetch baskets and trolleys. Probably 50% of the time the customer would get to see our lower half so would be in a position to notice, if they even bothered to look, which most don't. Remember that their unconscious assumption is that I would be wearing trousers so why would they even bother to look. But yeah, as a customer I don't look either - I'm there to purchase and pay for something, if I get to chat with the cashier ( and most times I don't ) then that's a bonus.

I intend being open and non-confrontational with my employers and always have. Whatever decisions are made and conclusions reached I will conform to them, after all I may be working with my colleagues for the next few years.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Skirts at work

Post by partlyscot »

I have been contemplating skirts at work for a while. The Company has some pretty strong non-discrimination policies, which are actually followed, surprisingly enough! There have been past employees who have worn such things as a utiliklit, a mumu style thing, very, brief running shorts etc. I've only known the utilikilt dude, and I never actually saw him in at work. 4 guys have turned up at the Christmas bash in kilts, one of which was the utilikilt guy I mentioned, and another utilikilt wearer, who has not worn it at work. 2 were full traditional Scots kilt, jacket, kilt socks etc. One of those, was the regional manager.

I had asked the deputy manger, in a light hearted way about a kilt, some time ago, and the response was along the lines off, "Hope you don't go traditional if you're going to be climbing ladders!" More recently a discussion about what constitutes "acceptable professional appearance" prompted me to ask the general manger if skirts and kilts would be acceptable. Her response was "Go for it, as long as it isn't dirty or ripped"

Something like half a dozen co-workers have seen me skirted, and there have been no outward negative comments, and only one or two expressions of surprise. My GF who also works there has not passed on any comments to her either. I'm sure that there are a large number who have found out through the grapevine by now.

The job is retail, and I am very much in contact with the public. I still have to get the courage up to do it, and I will probably wait till it gets warmer, (it's seriously cold at the moment) Logic and experience tells me that there will not be screams and cataclysms, but emotions say otherwise. It is almost a certainty that there will be an occasional objection from some customers, but how far that will go...? If anybody actually registers a complaint, management will follow up on it, but I don't think, as long as I behave processionally to the customer, that it will cause them to change their attitude on my skirts. Currently I am "designing" my look, and thinking about what goes best with the required top, that is important from a personal satisfaction view, and it will help with acceptance I think. I may at first, go in on an "off day" as had been suggested, or just change into a skirt after my shift while the store is still open, as a way of getting used to being there in a skirt myself, as much as a way of "introducing" the new look.
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Re: Skirts at work

Post by TheSkirtedMan »

Sinned wrote:BTW ThSkrtdMn it's not necessarily true that what you do outside of work is non of the Company's business. If the Company can prove that what you are doing or represent could have a detrimental effect on the Company then they can sack you. People have been sacked for comments they have posted in social media for instance. I admit that under sexual equality laws they probably couldn't sack me even if I turned up in full drag but there are a lot of other ways and excuses they can use to sack you.
I don't disagree but wearing a skirt in private is not detrimental to a company, especially if you are not wearing one on their time. I do accept rules can be manipulated against others by the the ones who hold power and do not agree with others freedom of choice but allow others to do so. Many run that risk in many jobs, day to day and for many reasons other than a man in a skirt. Crimes against society, including such issues via social media, that is very much different.

From subsequent comments I assume "Sinned", you have not as yet done what you had decided, talk to your AM about what you do in your private life, i.e. skirt wearing and leave the work point alone. From what you say on this forum your AM has a good working relationship with staff including you. Your employers are happy with your services - temporary to permanent. I would simply take the bull by the horns. I would approach your AM, say what you do, as it may be reported back to her via other staff or outsiders if seen outside of work in a skirt. Say what you would like to do. As I said before, take a photo of the outfit with the company fleece, black shoes etc. Ask what is the feasibility of this, you will not cause trouble if the answer is no. You could add, if the answer is no, that you accept the answer but are curious why in this modern era of gender equality it is OK for female colleagues to have full freedom of choice but male colleagues have stipulation. This point you have raised could sit on your AM mind and in due course reflect differently or even allow her to raise it at senior management meetings about company policies reflecting the modern freedom of choice. As you say you would not be contentious and why, what purpose would it solve, you are simply enquiring more than what many do. A one to one chat, in her office is not going to affect the workplace atmosphere if she feels it would not be a good idea. Work may already know and are simply respecting your choice of keeping it private.

Unless these issues and others are raised at some point, nothing changes. It is at the end of the day how all changes within society take place. If you have this hesitation the real solution is to leave the situation as it is. Say nothing.

When I went public in 2011 I told all my clients. I'm self employed gardener, so skirt wearing is not practical. We live in a very rural community, my work base is within this local community. I told all my clients in person. I said that although I would not wear one at work it is only due to practical reasons but there are times I need to pop round, and if I'm in a skirt at that point in time then that is how I will come. They would see me out and about and 5 clients we socialised with, one we are invited down to their home down South. I said if it made being associated with me to difficult to continue my services due to personal reason or comments towards them from other members of the community I would step aside. Not one client voiced an objection and one 93 year old lady said "...women wear trousers, why not". My client base has increased and I have never had to advertise. I still socialise with the 5 clients and yes in a skirt and in public. I still go down South to one and yes in a skirt within their community. Being self employed may help but I'm still reliant on the public and recommendations from within the community for my business success. I do not doubt that some clients may question what I do, or many in society that I pass regularly whilst in a skirt question what I do but at the end of the day 99.9% and none of my clients make any reference to it and accept that is my choice and my life. Do we not ourselves question others privately on aspects of their lives.

I hope for you "Sinned" and others in similar situations on this forum that you can wear your skirt at work. In this modern era you should be allowed to without all this can I, should I, what if etc. I do not see this with the other gender with their clothing freedom of expression. I wish your decision all the best.
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Caultron
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Re: Skirts at work

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Good advice, TheSkirtedMan. Our own anxiety is by far our greatest impediment.

If you're worried how someone might react, just ask them.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Sinned
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Re: Skirts at work

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I haven't had the conversation yet with my AM but after I do ( and it will have to be soon ) then I'll let you know the outcome.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
DenIM
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Re: Skirts at work

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TheSkirtedMan wrote:When I went public in 2011 I told all my clients. I'm self employed gardener, so skirt wearing is not practical.
I am a self-employed painter and decorator and a friend of mine pointed out the firm 'Rugged and Tough' that sells workwear. In their range are work kilts, black, green and white. I use the white one for wallpapering telling the customers that I do so not just for comfort reasons but because the pockets are ample and excellently placed for easy access to my knives, sicssors, smoother, etc. Perhaps you could have a look at the green one for your low-level gardening duties?
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Re: Skirts at work

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DenIM wrote:I am a self-employed painter and decorator and a friend of mine pointed out the firm 'Rugged and Tough' that sells workwear. In their range are work kilts, black, green and white. I use the white one for wallpapering telling the customers that I do so not just for comfort reasons but because the pockets are ample and excellently placed for easy access to my knives, sicssors, smoother, etc. Perhaps you could have a look at the green one for your low-level gardening duties?
I'm afraid my garden tools are a bit too big for pockets, perhaps not secateurs. Kneeling down, a kneel pad can get in the way, attached pads useless when under a skirt, I don't like short skirts at all. Have got to be below the knee, calf length. Nettles, thistles, spiky plants etc. Pushing in between full and mature large borders.

Straight forward trousers for gardening. Protect the bare legs, nothing to get caught on, bit of padding for the knees. Then there is the banks that climb high above those below and ladders when doing conifer trees some 12 feet high or even tending to climbers over two and three story house fronts. I also do a lot of river bank work among thick and tall growth. Garden fires, need to get up and close with the feet at times and trousers in wellies much better than a skirt out loose, even shorter kilts. Wet weather. Cannot put on water proofs. In the UK rain can come even on a fine day especially in our area! Don't stop work due to rain. Loading gear in and out of Defender like mowers.

All down to preference, but for me, standard trousers are far more practical for my job. I'll pass on above knee kilts and chunky pocket styles. Fine for those who like, but not for me. Hate shorts, never had on, hate bear legs. Now when I retire, the job I do will be suitable for skirt wearing or I don't do the job. Only do 3 days a week gardening. Plenty of time for skirt wearing in the evenings and the other 4 days!
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Re: Skirts at work

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TheSkirtedMan wrote:All down to preference, but for me, standard trousers are far more practical for my job.
Of note, one thing that Skirt Café does not advocate is the rejection of trousers on guys. We all know that trousers have their places, and they have those places for a good many reasons beyond having to be astride a horse for transportation. This is why we advocate that skirts and kilts be welcomed into men's repertoires in addition to trousers. Yes, that's right; we want the best of both worlds. The more who are willing to grab at that notion the better! We are worth it. And worthy of it.
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Re: Skirts at work

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I heartily agree Crl. Should this forum vote to reject trousers then I would resign immediately and would never darken your doorstep again. Some of you do this and that's your right but all I ever ask of anyone, including MOH, is that I be allowed to wear a skirt whenever I want to and wherever I want to. Nothing more, nothing less.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Skirts at work

Post by DonaldG »

Me too! Since joining this forum last November, I've gone out as much as possible skirted. But now that I feel quite comfortable with doing so, I am happy to wear trousers sometimes, especially during the current cold weather (-10degrees C at night, -5 by day). I'm just happy to feel able to wear whatever I want.
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