Skirts at work

[Caultron]

...Three questions:

1. So once I have signed my permanent contract do you think I should mention my skirt wearing then as staff members may see me around and about in a skirt?
2. Do you think that I should ask if its ok for me to wear a skirt at work?
3. Lastly how do you think I should approach the issue of my going round the store in a skirt when I am not on duty?...

The correct answer depends largely on the people, personalities, and places involved, but in general there are three choices:

1. Just do what you want and see what happens, on the basis that it's often easier to get forgiveness than permission.
2. Ask permission, with plans to negotiate if necessary.
3. Do nothing.

The advisability of #1 depends, of course, on the consequences of getting neither forgiveness nor permission, but instead rejection. If, for example, you wore a skirt to work and that turned out to be unacceptable, would they fire you on the spot? Or could you just apologize, say you thought it was worth a shot, and go put on a pair of trousers you left in the car for just such an eventuality?

In the case of #2, you should be prepared with strategies like, "The dress code doesn't say skirts are only acceptable for women. If it did, that would be sexual discrimination," or, "How about trying it for one day, or every Monday for a month, or whatever, and see if any problems develop?" But make sure you come off as asking and negotiating, not arguing. Stay mellow.

With either #1 or #2, it's often helpful if the decision-maker doesn't have to make a locked-in black-and-white commitment. It's usually much better if both sides expect some flexibility over time. For example, it's usually easier to get a decision like, "OK, you can try it a few times and we'll see what happens," than, "OK, starting today, you can wear a skirt all the time and forever." And of course you should pick your moment and situation carefully.

If you do get permission or at least lack of opposition, try to maintain the spirit of what the other workers wear. If, for example, they usually wear blue jeans or denim shorts, start with knee-length or longer denim skirts that avoid any risk of tripping. Or, if any female employees wear conservative skirts, key off those styles.

I hardly ever recommend #3, unless you just need to think about the situation for a while. Doing nothing isn't going to make you happy, you're always going to wonder, "What if?" And it's hard to image getting fired just for politely asking.

[Sinned]

As far as other wear we are provided with a top and fleece which bear the firm's name and logo so that is non-negotiable and the black trousers/skirt is also mandatory as is black footwear. No shorts or jeans at all. There are only one or two of the women who wear skirts - most wear trousers. At my induction I did joke about it to my supervisor and her answer gave me the impression that she wouldn't bat an eyelid. I get on well with all of the Assistant Managers ( one female ) and the Manager and it was the female AM that employed me. I think that she wouldn't put up any barriers but not sure about the others. Of course there is the wider picture in that, as I work in a very customer-facing role, there may be concern on how the Great General Pubic take to a skirt-wearing male cashier. Then there's the question of whether Head Office may get involved. I did think about asking my Manager to enquire if there are any others in the Company in my position and what the Official Line is. If there is support from top ( or at least no objection and indication that it would have a detrimental effect on my career ) then it may make it easier for me. Interestingly no mention is made of tights and whether they are required and any colour, but presumably black if they are.

I like your suggestion of negotiation, requesting information on official policy and adding humour to the chat. I wouldn't want to wear a skirt every day anyway but wearing one every so often, like one week in a month and avoiding days when Top Brass are visiting and negotiating restrictions. TBH I wouldn't be surprised if I was told No simply because the reaction of the GGP might be feared. All the customers I have discussed this with have been encouraging and positive. Thanks Cltrn.

[Caultron]

Maybe you should talk to the female AM who hired you and ask for her advice (or even support) about asking the GM.

[skirtyscot]

Big companies invariably have big Human Resources departments who like to justify their existence by writing big fat staff handbooks. The Equality Act 2010 had been around for a few years now (obviously) so your HR people have had plenty of time to write company policies that comply with it. Go and read them; my bet is that they can't stop you from wearing a skirt unless they try to argue that it would damage the company in some way.

That's not to say it's a good idea to turn up in a skirt with your copy of the Act in your bag, ready to get all lawyer-y with your bosses. But if you're going to have a conversation with them about it, you want to have done your homework first.

Step two is to let some colleagues know that you wear skirts.

I think that going shopping in your shop in a black skirt, one which you think would be fine for work, might be worth a try. So long as you don't have the company top on, your bosses can't reasonably object. Talk to a few colleagues while you are there.

Then once they have got over the surprise, broach the subject of wearing the skirt to work. Maybe give them a week or two first to think about it, to talk about it.

You could aim for a skirted day at the checkout to begin with. Less obvious to the customers; when I leave a supermarket I've no idea what the checkout operator was wearing below the waist. And the extra comfort of a skirt is most noticeable while sitting down.

But above all, you know the people and only you can judge how the will all react.

[TheSkirtedMan]

Sinned.

The three questions are interesting. I'll start with the 3rd one. What you do outside of work hours, i.e. not representing the employer, has nothing to do with your employment. I'm sure most if not all of us have activities in life that the bosses do not understand, and I suppose we of them. Question 3 clearly comes under your private life.

As for questions one and two, having worked there you will be the best to know how staff are generally and how they relate to you as a colleague. I would personally wait for a week or so after the permanent contract. That gives you a lot of protection especially under EU employment laws. Then I would approach the line manager and say that this is what you do, you have kept it away from work out of respect but as time goes by you feel that under the era of gender equality you would like to wear skirts etc at work just as the women do with trousers etc. Take a picture of you along because a picture speaks louder than imagination. I wouldn't make this approach in a skirt. It is human nature to react negatively when something different appears before you, well for many that is.

I think having worked there temporary to suddenly spring the skirt on them at the permanent contract can come over as a condition and it could spook the line manager/employer. Applying for the job first time, then being offered the job I would do the same process. As you have been there for a few months already and from your comment I assume the staff do not know or if they do, have not let on, to suddenly mention it on permanent contract offering could be taken wrongly.

These are just my own thoughts. I am no expert. You must do what is right for you. It will be interesting to see the thoughts of other members on this forum. On the positive side you could be a customer attraction for your employer boosting their business!

Speaking from my experience I work for myself and the job does not lend itself to skirt wearing. Our friends, and third parties I met regularly in a skirt have never been any different with me. At times in conversation men in skirts comes up and they have all said but you are still the same person we have always known. If you had changed your personality and ethos, things may be different. The trouble is people you meet for the first time, because it is human nature to be stand offish on first contact, can react negatively to anything different to what they perceive as being normal. They will stand away from you, even if they are different in other aspects of life to others. Also I personally feel that I do not have problems with many strangers or first contact, because I still come over and talk as a man. Basically I am not emulating a woman which I am sure you don't either. I am confident they would take you in their stride and perhaps consider you a little eccentric.

You could be back here in a few months with three more questions. They say no, do I: accept and stay; leave; or pursue sex discrimination in the work place under the EU employment laws.

All the best

[TheSkirtedMan]

I didn't notice the little number 2 on the bottom of the screen when posting my reply above so the bit about interesting to note others comments on this forum is a bit irrelevant. The rest is OK.

Sorry. I'll pay more attention to the small print next time!

[Sinned]

There's a lot of informal banter goes on and something occurred tonight that may give a flavour for you. My shift today was 9:00 - 17:30 but it has been manic all day ( there's a sale on ) and we took a phenomenal amount today in takings. I was asked to work extra which I did and for the hour after closing I was tidying shelves. Anyway just before 19:00, my leaving time, I went up to the staff room to have a drink and sign out when this female AM announced over the tannoy about how much we had taken but I missed the amount. I went downstairs to leave and she thanked me for working over and I got a hug and I asked what she had said over the tannoy. She said, " I said that I wanted mad, passionate sex with you but you missed it so you're too late!" I replied, " Well, you'll have to join the queue then and I'll have to check my diary to see when I can fit you in." Now, in another environment and with different people that could come under sexual harassment but we are made of firmer stuff, obviously. I get the impression that the staff I work with may be ok with it but whether the Regional Manager and HO would, I don't know. Yes, I would do it gradually and the first point is a discussing with the FAM. No I wouldn't consider a confrontational approach. Wearing a skirt at work would be nice to do but is not THAT important to me so if there are strong objections then I would just drop the issue and conform.

BTW ThSkrtdMn it's not necessarily true that what you do outside of work is non of the Company's business. If the Company can prove that what you are doing or represent could have a detrimental effect on the Company then they can sack you. People have been sacked for comments they have posted in social media for instance. I admit that under sexual equality laws they probably couldn't sack me even if I turned up in full drag but there are a lot of other ways and excuses they can use to sack you.

Thanks for your thoughts so far - I receive great encouragement from them.

[Caultron]

...I would do it gradually and the first point is a discussing with the FAM. No I wouldn't consider a confrontational approach. Wearing a skirt at work would be nice to do but is not THAT important to me so if there are strong objections then I would just drop the issue and conform...

If you take and convey this approach, I'd say it's extremely unlikey you'd be punished for asking,

[crfriend]

Three questions:

1. So once I have signed my permanent contract do you think I should mention my skirt wearing then as staff members may see me around and about in a skirt?
2. Do you think that I should ask if its ok for me to wear a skirt at work?
3. Lastly how do you think I should approach the issue of my going round the store in a skirt when I am not on duty?

I'd feel the thing out with both your peers and your immediate supervisor. If all are on-side, then I'd tentatively give it a go in the hopes that those folks will back you if anything gets nasty.

Recall, though, that you are in a customer-facing milieu and that the Company may decide that your "non-traditional" attire will be either a distraction or a put-off for customers and demand that you back off. Policy or no, their word -- whether we like it or not -- is law in their land.

If the gig is too important to lose, for whatever reason, then don't push the envelope. Recall that risk-management is key in many endeavours.

[STEVIE]

Hi Dennis,
I would only reiterate what's been said already, be very, very careful!
The current climate in the U.K. is stacked in the favour of the employer.
Yes, ask, by all means, discuss and explore the possibilities.
The "permanent contract" may not provide you with great protection.
You may very well be "slapped down", I'd hope not, but then It's "balls in court time".
To bring a case, the costs would be on you, and you alone. Perhaps a "no win, no fee outfit"?
That would not be the only "cost", the attendant publicity, how would that go down at home?
I really hate to be so pessimistic, but this is real life and I don't think I'm overstating how far this could go once it was out in the open.
Finally, I may face a similar situation, our "dress code" has now been revised. One guy has already been told that his "dress down" day outfits are unacceptable.
I have other arguements on my side, if they choose to challenge me, simply "Why Now"? i also have a slight luxury of union membership.
For you, try to consult someone who is fully conversant with current UK employment law. That's not to be combative, just know where you stand.
Good luck, and I hope it works well!
I also hope I'm totally wrong in my thinking on this.
Steve.

[crfriend]

Finally, I may face a similar situation, our "dress code" has now been revised. One guy has already been told that his "dress down" day outfits are unacceptable.

The interesting thing in this is that your "dress-down" stuff is probably more presentable than the usual blight that is "casual" these days.

Certainly it's possible to blur the line between what's acceptable as "office casual" and what's "slob around casual", and altogether too many folks do just that. I see what used to pass at my prior place -- pyjamas and beachwear (capris and flip-flops). {retch} That stuff is inappropriate outside the home in the former case and anything more than 50 yards from the beach in the latter.

If something is neatly and tastefully done, I personally can't see any problem with it. The Boss Class, on the other hand, may see things differently, but if they've got their heads screwed on straight and folks are doing their jobs then most stuff that's not clearly contraindicated should be fine. YMMV.

[Grok]

One thing to keep in mind is whether or not the economy is doing well. If not, your options may be constrained. In a bad economy I can imagine people clinging to whatever jobs they have, and taking care not to rock the boat.

[STEVIE]

Hi Carl,
His situation and mine are kind of different, he has been told that he cannot "dress up" on dress down days.
Check the "Alford Stormtrooper" on FB, it's public, so I'm not betraying any confidential data.
In my own case, I have been exceptionally careful to remain conservative in my business dress.
I said that it was "ironic". that my denims had been consigned to dress down days only.
I adhere to the "dress" rules as they have been applied, my bosses have been complicit in "tacit acceptance". They have voiced no objections, that actually counts in Scotland. Indeed, it could be shown that I've actually been encouraged. My presence at various meetings, requests for my participation in events etc.
If the "tide" did turn, I reckon I'd have a case.
I can only hope I'd have the courage to bring it on.
Steve.

[Sinned]

Having slept on this for a day or two ( or night or two really as I don't as a rule sleep during the day except when at work and my mind wanders the ether ) I have decided on the following approach. I won't immediately raise the issue of wearing a skirt to work but I will inform my AM that I do wear a skirt outside of work and it's more than likely that at some point that I will pop into the store as a member of the GGP wearing the said clothing. I will also give the reasons why I wear a skirt and say that I am prepared to talk to staff members individually on this as occasion arises unless she has any objections. I will ask what the Company policy is on the issue of the dress code as the one I was given is ( gender/sex ) non-specific but not directly ask about permission to wear a skirt to work. This then leaves the ball in her court as to how she tackles this and what advice she gives. Realistically I would expect the answer in the negative because the role is very customer-facing and without explanations to each customer they will inevitably, left to their own devices, draw the wrong conclusions about my gender and sexuality. The job, whilst not the most exciting in the world, is one I enjoy in my latter career and is more important than trying to force the issue of wearing a skirt to work, bearing in mind that I was unemployed for about 18 months prior to this. I can do that in my own time within the constraints of MOH's feelings. Similarly, should MOH rally force the issue and say it's either the skirt or me and that D word then the skirts would reluctantly go into storage. All of what you have advised has been taken to heart and I see this as the best way of informing my AM of my taste in clothes and how and when it is likely to affect the Company. Of course they could turn round and say not to come into the store at all in a skirt even as a customer. I'm not sure that legally they would be justified in saying that but should they do so then I would respect it. As has been said many time in this community whilst we endeavour to push the boundaries we live in a real, and at times bigoted and misinformed, world and have to wend our way through the challenges sometimes facing us. Thank you all for your thoughts and in raising this issue I hope that others browsing will have been enlightened in a similar way.

Dnns

[STEVIE]

Dennis,
Very wise, just hope that it all goes well.
Steve.