Do folks notice or not?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby Kirbstone » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:46 am

Darryl,

Forgive my asking, but What exactly is cognitive dissonance ? Is it muddying the pitch, inserting a spanner in the works, instigating unrest or merely planning a little mass revolution?

Now I'd certainly notice that ! :x

Tom
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby skirtyscot » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:26 am

Keep on skirting,

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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby Sinned » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:14 pm

Basically it's the inner conflict when faced with a situation that runs counter to your innate experience or belief structure. In our case the innate is dresses and skirts are for women, dresses and skirts are for women and the situation is a man in a skirt. Repeat after me - that does not compute, that does not compute, that does not compute ....
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby Darryl » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:23 pm

Kirbstone wrote:Darryl,

Forgive my asking, but What exactly is cognitive dissonance ? Is it muddying the pitch, inserting a spanner in the works, instigating unrest or merely planning a little mass revolution?

Now I'd certainly notice that ! :x

Tom


Actually, I like this definition from Brittanica: cognitive dissonance: The mental conflict that occurs when beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information. The unease or tension that the conflict arouses in a person is relieved by one of several defensive maneuvers: the person rejects, explains away, or avoids the new information, persuades himself that no conflict really exists, reconciles the differences, or resorts to any other defensive means of preserving stability or order in his conception of the world and of himself. The concept, first introduced in the 1950s, has become a major point of discussion and research.
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby Daryl » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:23 pm

Darryl wrote:
Kirbstone wrote:Darryl,

Forgive my asking, but What exactly is cognitive dissonance ? Is it muddying the pitch, inserting a spanner in the works, instigating unrest or merely planning a little mass revolution?

Now I'd certainly notice that ! :x

Tom


Actually, I like this definition from Brittanica: cognitive dissonance: The mental conflict that occurs when beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information. The unease or tension that the conflict arouses in a person is relieved by one of several defensive maneuvers: the person rejects, explains away, or avoids the new information, persuades himself that no conflict really exists, reconciles the differences, or resorts to any other defensive means of preserving stability or order in his conception of the world and of himself. The concept, first introduced in the 1950s, has become a major point of discussion and research.


As the phrase is used informally, "beliefs" and "assumptions" is just a bit inaccurate, I think. As it's used casually and popularly, "cognitive dissonance" is not an opinion or belief being contradicted; it is simply one's reaction to something that runs counter to what one expects. Bearded ladies, men dancing Bollywood-style in hot-pants and heels, horses with two heads -- all are jarring to our visual senses, and that effect is sometimes called "cognitive dissonance". It's like dissonance in music, only visual. We react with "oh that's not right" even though we can probably accomodate it pretty quickly.

A more accurate term for the popular meaning would probably be "perceptual dissonance" or "sensory dissonance". Hmmm, maybe this is the right place to begin popularising those alternatives!
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby Caultron » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:55 pm

Cognitive dissonance refers to a situation involving conflicting attitudes, beliefs or behaviors. This produces a feeling of discomfort leading to an alteration in one of the attitudes, beliefs or behaviors to reduce the discomfort and restore balance etc.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/cognit ... nance.html

A prime example was Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's Reich Minister of Propaganda. As a Nazi he hated all Jews but then he learned that one of his grandmothers was Jewish, and that meant he was part Jewish himself. Cognitive dissonance. How could he hate all Jews without hating himself? To resolve the conflict he has to change one of his beliefs.

"Death to all extremists!" is another example.
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby Sinned » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:53 pm

"This produces a feeling of discomfort leading to an alteration in one of the attitudes, beliefs or behaviors to reduce the discomfort and restore balance etc."

That cognitive dissonance, however you define it. happens doesn't mean that there is any alteration in attitudes, behaviours or beliefs. I'm not the only one who's OH exhibits cognitive dissonance yet shows not one iota of change yet and is still vehemently opposed to being with me on the wide, wide world with me in a skirt. I heartily wish that she would as I would then be a very happy man.
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby JeffB1959 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:39 am

While at the mall yesterday in a 20 inch denim pencil skirt, I was at the counter of a candy store when the lady behind the register, glancing down at said skirt asked if I was cold in "that thing" (temps in the region barely cracked 40 and it felt colder)? I shook my head and said no, adding that I was indoors like her. She chuckled and said "Touche!"
I don't want to LOOK like a woman, I just want to DRESS like a woman.
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby Caultron » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:22 pm

Sinned wrote:That cognitive dissonance, however you define it. happens doesn't mean that there is any alteration in attitudes, behaviours or beliefs...

That's certainly true. Virtually everyone lives with a certain number of conflicting beliefs. Hence the explanation, "Oh, but that's different."
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby Sinned » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:34 pm

That's true, Caultron, but most reasonable people accept the contradictions, recognise them for what they are, if necessary amend their conceptions and move on. Which is why most, on seeing us in a dress/kilt/skirt/whatever, glance, take a second glance, inwardly groan and continue with their lives. Some, unfortunately, seem unable to do this. Sigh.
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby Caultron » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:24 pm

Sinned wrote:That's true, Caultron, but most reasonable people accept the contradictions, recognise them for what they are, if necessary amend their conceptions and move on. Which is why most, on seeing us in a dress/kilt/skirt/whatever, glance, take a second glance, inwardly groan and continue with their lives. Some, unfortunately, seem unable to do this. Sigh.

In think we agree.
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby STEVIE » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:34 am

This resurrects an oldie but a goldy in my mind.
Wee Laddie, you state that the average member of the public could not differentiate between a girls school uniform kilted skirt and the Scots Kilt.
While this may be accurate for some parts of the world, it could be a risky assertion in others.
I have had a "sighting in the wid" of a younger man who wears a kilted skirt as a Kilt. The difference is patently obvious.
The tartan is that used by a local private school as designated for their female pupils.
While nothing untoward has occurred, I have noticed the "looks" that are cast in his direction. They are not ones of approval.
Grown man in female school uniform, a potential recipe for disaster in this day and age.
While I still feel that most Scots don't have such a deep respect for "The Kilt", there are still enough who would take misplaced umbrage in this situation.
Take care!
Steve.
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby weeladdie18 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:30 pm

Stevie.....All noted....You must remember I am simply recording my experiences of the perception
of Joe Public out on the street......This is just a game to see if people are well educated and know
how the Traditional Scottish Kilt should be worn correctly.
If I said to you...
" See you at the gathering next Sunday,I will be wearing my best Traditional Scottish Kilt ".....

Could you find me in the crowd at the gathering ?

When you find me, will I be able to give you a dressing down for not being correctly attired to meet me ?

Wearing The Traditional Scottish Kilt correctly is a matter of breeding and class. .....Roderick...
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby weeladdie18 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:30 am

Stevie.....That is a very interesting perception by Joe Public out in the street.
I had an extremely entertaining day today......Just really tickled my sense of humour.....
I had some business to sort out, so I was wearing trousers....on a good day someone draws
a short straw and is the butt of the days' humour....Picture bad winter weather ,Earliest Sunset
of the winterTomorrow ,Shortest day next week....Everyone in the café .........
One of my elderly male friends was being polite to me and suggested I should take his religion more seriously....I was making some sketches on the back of an envelope to sort out a project...

He saw my drawings and made a technical suggestion regarding assistance based on his beliefs.
The mature ,well bred Waitress came to my table....We discussed our friend 's technical advice.
She went away and then came back....I told her the nickname I had given our friend.
She quickly turned away , so I could not see her face....and retired to the Kitchen.

When she came back , she said " Well done Rod,....you have made my day, I have not laughed so
much in years." I looked at her , very straight faced and said
" Do you think I ought to take his advice ? " ..." Yes " , the charming lady replied ,
I made another cryptic comment and she quickly retired to the kitchen......

She returned with big smile on her face...................

We had discussed an event which had occurred five minutes before...

If one goes out on the street dressed as a Pantomime Dame in Drag ; ..... Joe Public may remain
tight lipped but laugh at the performance behind the Skirt wearer's back......some time
after the performance had occurred......

How does the "Man in Skirts " fit into this cenario ?
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Re: Do folks notice or not?

Postby weeladdie18 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:06 am

Please will my friends accept that this report of an incident regarding one of my friends beliefs
was not an attack on his religion , as a similar situation could have occurred with a
" pantomime dame " in the same situation...............

Regarding Stevie's post : How could Joe Public establish that "The Man In a Skirt" was wearing
a female school uniform skirt, or a skirt and not a Kilt Skirt or a traditional Scottish Kilt ?

I wish to pursue this Issue but I feel we may be skating on very thin ice
unless there is plenty of oil in this region of Scotland ............................weeladdie.
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