Are We Winning?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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crfriend
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by crfriend »

Grok wrote:So we will have demographics that are bifurcated, rather than unbifurcated? :shock:

Young men will be expected to wear two pipes...while older men can try something different?
Correct, save that it'd be best if the "be expected" notion could be struck from the thought.

Just because someone has the freedom to choose something -- for example, a style -- does not mean that he must choose it. Compulsion is fully as evil as prohibition. Freedom -- indeed life itself -- hinges on the availability of options and the exercise of free will.

If the youngsters refuse to exercise free will, why should it be prohibited for their elders?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again here to make sure the point it taken: "I do not want to see trousers replaced with skirted garments. I want the option to choose either style depending on my needs and mood."
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Re: Are We Whining?

Post by crfriend »

Grok wrote:Wearing one pipe is very radical, yet members seem to be interested in putting together outfits that look plausible on a man.
Why should we wish to look outlandish to observers -- like a Walmartian? Why should we wish not to impress others and to look good in the eye of the beholder?

Contemplate your writing, sir. If you wish to disagree with the thesis here that men can look good in open garments and that they should not wear them (for whatever reason), just come out and say it!
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Grok
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by Grok »

Actually, I do believe that men can look good in open ended garments. :D

I believe that members are on the right track for creating a positive impression. :!: That is the answer for the question "Are We Winning?"
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Daryl
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Re: Are We Winning?

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crfriend wrote:"I do not want to see trousers replaced with skirted garments. I want the option to choose either style depending on my needs and mood."
But the practical issue, given that space allocation is a zero sum game in stores, one of two things can happen once skirts are an equal choice to pants for men.

1. Some varieties of pants disappear from the menswear department, replaced by varieties of skirts.

2. Other products lose space to allow men's skirts to have as much space as men's pants.

If by some magic I could switch between just two universes, one where men only wear pants or one where men only wear skirts, I would opt for the latter universe.
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crfriend
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by crfriend »

Daryl wrote:But the practical issue, given that space allocation is a zero sum game in stores [...]
That's a valid enough observation, but given the dearth of choices in even men's trousers (will that be Dockers or Levis today?) from which fully 1/2 could be lost would not provide much space for skirts. There's also a seemingly looming death for old-school "brick-and-mortal" stores in the offing in favour of on-line shopping.

I favour brick-and-mortar because I get get up-close looks at things, and until the quagmire that is "sizing" on the distaff side goes, the 'Net is a very poor substitute for in-person work.
If by some magic I could switch between just two universes, one where men only wear pants or one where men only wear skirts, I would opt for the latter universe.
I might as well, but I don't exactly want to be crawling around under cars or doing heavy work outdoors or in the presence of high-speed machinery in something long and flowing. I believe there's a place for both.
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oldsalt1
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by oldsalt1 »

crfriend wrote:
Daryl wrote:Bt two universes, one where men only wear pants or one where men only wear skirts, I would opt for the latter universe.
I might as well, but I don't exactly want to be crawling around under cars or doing heavy work outdoors or in the presence of high-speed machinery in something long and flowing. I believe there's a place for both.
I agree that there is a place for everything. I cut the grass and do most of my yard work in a skirt. But I have some serious landscaping to do I and I am not going to wade into a patch of god knows what in a skirt.

It just has to boil down to a state where you can wear what you want when you want
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by hoborob »

Grok wrote:Wearing one pipe is very radical, yet members seem to be interested in putting together outfits that look plausible on a man.
That plausibility is exactly what I am talking about. It will not be the outrageous or spectacular that takes the day but rather the mass of plausibility that wins it. The weird and strange merely attract the attention of the gawkers and give credence the statements that those men that wear skirts are "wierdos, freaks, homosexuals, strange, etc." Once demonstrated plainly be the a large group that skirt wear men are just as normal as everyone else then and only then will it be acceptable to the public at large. Until then I personally do not wish to be associated with those that are "in your face" about it, as they can easily sink the whole enterprise but establishing firmly in the minds of the general public that skirtwearing is for the freaks and weirdos.
Last edited by crfriend on Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quoting.
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Daryl
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Re: Are We Winning?

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crfriend wrote:I don't exactly want to be crawling around under cars or doing heavy work outdoors or in the presence of high-speed machinery in something long and flowing. I believe there's a place for both.
Well, true, but isn't this why we have feminism, so we can call a woman to do those kinds of jobs for us? :mrgreen:
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Daryl
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by Daryl »

hoborob wrote:
Grok wrote:Wearing one pipe is very radical, yet members seem to be interested in putting together outfits that look plausible on a man.
That plausibility is exactly what I am talking about. It will not be the outrageous or spectacular that takes the day but rather the mass of plausibility that wins it. The weird and strange merely attract the attention of the gawkers and give credence the statements that those men that wear skirts are "wierdos, freaks, homosexuals, strange, etc." Once demonstrated plainly be the a large group that skirt wear men are just as normal as everyone else then and only then will it be acceptable to the public at large. Until then I personally do not wish to be associated with those that are "in your face" about it, as they can easily sink the whole enterprise but establishing firmly in the minds of the general public that skirtwearing is for the freaks and weirdos.
Actually, the extreme examples still serve the larger goal, but only if the non-extreme examples are very visible too. The contrast sticks in people's minds and they automatically kind of choose the least shocking as acceptable.

"I'm okay with women getting paid the same for the same work, that's only fair, but those bra burning man haters, forget them."

"I don't mind the marijuana smokers, but those meth-heads sure are messed up."

"I don't care what guys do in their own beds, it's none of my business, but why do those pride parades have to be so raunchy?"

NEVER open a negotiation with your opening offer being what you'd be willing to settle for.
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Grok
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by Grok »

Daryl wrote:
crfriend wrote:""
But the practical issue, given that space allocation is a zero sum game in stores, one of two things can happen once skirts are an equal choice to pants for men.

.
So far, I have seen skirts for men marketed by small, specialized companies. Allocation is not really an issue, and may not be for a good many years.
Grok
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by Grok »

Daryl wrote:
hoborob wrote:
Grok wrote:l public that skirtwearing is for the freaks and weirdos.
Actually, the extreme examples still serve the larger goal, but only if the non-extreme examples are very visible too. The contrast sticks in people's minds and they automatically kind of choose the least shocking as acceptabl.
Sort of similar to the bad cop/good cop thing? With the bad cop being, for example, drag queens, while members are good cops?
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by Grok »

One last comment, and then I want to drop this subject for good.

Members are on the right track, as part of what is likely to be a long process. Members are doing the right thing, in what is probably a very early stage in change.
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Daryl
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by Daryl »

Grok wrote:One last comment, and then I want to drop this subject for good.

Members are on the right track, as part of what is likely to be a long process. Members are doing the right thing, in what is probably a very early stage in change.
Yeah, I think members are doing the right thing too. This board is well defined as being about men wearing skirts NOT about men doing other things that happen to include skirt wearing. This makes it possible to not exclude people or their styles unnecessarily whilst also not letting the board's purpose drift off.

In the good cop bad cop analogy drag queens would be the fabulous cops.
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Daryl
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by Daryl »

Grok wrote:
Daryl wrote:
crfriend wrote:""
But the practical issue, given that space allocation is a zero sum game in stores, one of two things can happen once skirts are an equal choice to pants for men.

.
So far, I have seen skirts for men marketed by small, specialized companies. Allocation is not really an issue, and may not be for a good many years.
The distant future is where I live!
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Grok
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Re: Are We Winning?

Post by Grok »

Daryl wrote:
Grok wrote: In the good cop bad cop analogy drag queens would be the fabulous cops.
I stand corrected. :lol:
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