Out and About -- In the World at Large

[owen]

Some good solid practical gear there, KJ. The car looks good too!

[crfriend]

Sapphire and I just got back from dinner, and I wore my floor-length purple "walking skirt", my petticoat underneath, a lavender dress shirt, a (new) black waistcoat, and my great-grandfather's pocket-watch. Either nobody noticed, or nobody felt any need to comment. So much for trying to be a peacock!

I'm trying to maximise the mileage in this rig leading up to a masquerade ball (a local fundraiser) this coming weekend because I'd like to be able to navigate in it competently; I don't have all that much practise, and every little bit helps.

As an observation, today here in our little corner of the world was a nasty little piece of work; it was cold and damp, and a steady rain was falling with 35+ MPH gusts driving it sideways sometimes. Getting into the car was a bit of a challenge (but I'm learning how to do it both quickly and gracefully), but once in, even before the car heat kicked on, I started warming up very nicely. This rig has advantages! Too, I'm getting closer to mastering the interaction of the long skirt and the petticoat; this overall rig is going to live up to its name as a "walking skirt" as I fully intend to take it out for jaunts on the local "rail trail" once the weather is nice. This is a serious "win".

[Uncle Al]

Sapphire and I just got back from dinner, and I wore my
floor-length purple "walking skirt", my petticoat underneath,
a lavender dress shirt, a (new) black waistcoat, and my
great-grandfather's pocket-watch.
<snip>
I'm getting closer to mastering the interaction of the long skirt
and the petticoat; this overall rig is going to live up to its name
as a "walking skirt" as I fully intend to take it out for jaunts on
the local "rail trail" once the weather is nice.
This is a serious "win".

BRAVO Well Done

Uncle Al

[Kilted_John]

That's the brand, year model and colour of the (*^&%%&*) car that hit me on a roundabout a few weeks ago. The culprit was a sedan though! Like the outfit however

Luckily, Volvo drivers in the northern hemisphere usually seem to be a bit more sane than the aussies... It probably was not the exact model, since the 240 Turbo was a LHD only car. Also, it'd look more like a 1993 model down there, since Volvo didn't have round headlamps after 1980 anywhere, and the 1981 and newer rest-of-world cars looked more like what we got in 1986 and later.

Thanks on the outfit.

Carl, if you can find one that's not rusted to heck, it might be worth getting one for hauling stuff around in. The weather was cool, but, comfortable enough for me to wear the outfit I was wearing. I usually can get away with nylon trouser socks from about 45 degrees on up. Below that, I'm looking for wool or something heavier. When it gets down into the 20's, that's when I really should be kilted, but, I need to do some more shrinking before I can get back into my kilts.

Thanks, Owen...

-J

[JRMILLER]

Carl,
Skirt wearing is a strange, new world. Females were taught long ago what worked for what weather conditions and it's pretty much ingrained into them (notice how many are wearing pants). Those of us who just started wearing skirts have to figure all of this out on our own. I have a very nice, simple long fleece skirt that I like in the winter because it's warm. Problem is, however, it's so long that I have problems with it in wet and snowy weather. It likes to become "one" with the weather conditions... It also has a very large flare and I have to be careful it doesn't get stuck in the car door or drag through the salt stuck to the threshold in the car door as I enter and exit....

Kilts work better under these conditions, but they are not as warm. Kilts are very good for walking around in cool - warm (not cold weather), but they present a management issue if you plan to sit in close company with them. I find myself checking frequently to make sure I am not showing off my "neaths" to the other folks seated around me. Frankly, it can be a hassle in that setting.

I am thinking mid-calf would be a good compromise and that's probably why women seem to favor them unless the weather is warm.

You are clearly in the "advanced class" and an ascending master as you manage your hooped critter. I can only hope to arrive at that level someday. Meanwhile, I will continue to work on these more manageable, but still tricky things that the ladies figured out and mostly abandoned for pants long ago!

-john

[crfriend]

Skirt wearing is a strange, new world. Females were taught long ago what worked for what weather conditions and it's pretty much ingrained into them (notice how many are wearing pants).

Sometimes I really wonder how much of that "living knowledge" is still extant in the general populace; recall that even for women ("females" sounds too clinical for my taste) skirts are now pretty much relegated to "special occasions" and, for the most part, have been replaced by trousers for everyday wear. I am fairly certain that there is a substantial population of women alive now who have never worn a skirt.

So, yes, it is a strange new world for us -- and given most of our seeming ages, it's not the sort of question we could ask our mothers. The notion of guys wearing skirts would likely be strange enough to them that the sorts of feedback we might get could be wrong or confusing, and that's depending on if they're still alive and we have the guts to actually ask!

Those of us who just started wearing skirts have to figure all of this out on our own.

This may not be a bad thing. True enough, some of the tactical needs are identical between men and women (e.g. not shutting the hem in the car door and how to properly navigate stairs), but some aren't. That's the main reason I'm spending so much time practising with my new long skirts before doing anything "important" in them. Too, "learning by doing" in this case will yield solutions that are immediately useful without any adaptation we might have to do with knowledge given to us by our lady-friends.

I have a very nice, simple long fleece skirt that I like in the winter because it's warm. Problem is, however, it's so long that I have problems with it in wet and snowy weather. It likes to become "one" with the weather conditions... It also has a very large flare and I have to be careful it doesn't get stuck in the car door or drag through the salt stuck to the threshold in the car door as I enter and exit....

Practise -- in good weather -- would be useful here as well as a helpful dose of experimentation. I'd advise against trying to hone basic skills when the weather (or anything else) is consipring against you; work out the basics, practise them, and then give it a go when everything is going to heck around you.

Kilts work better under these conditions, but they are not as warm. Kilts are very good for walking around in cool - warm (not cold weather), but they present a management issue if you plan to sit in close company with them. I find myself checking frequently to make sure I am not showing off my "neaths" to the other folks seated around me.

I suspect the "management issues" with a kilt pales in comparison to what one faces when wearing a long full skirt with a petticoat under it. Long skirts are very good at hiding everything you've got, so modesty really isn't an issue; however, that comes with a price in the form of manoeuverability.

I am thinking mid-calf would be a good compromise and that's probably why women seem to favor them unless the weather is warm.

Mid-calf is where I settled for quite a while. I have a couple of self-made minis that are quite nice, but I feel very self-conscious in them; the very long skirts are new to my wardrobe, and may not be practical once the weather starts getting hot. Time, alone, will provide the answer to that.

You are clearly in the "advanced class" and an ascending master as you manage your hooped critter. I can only hope to arrive at that level someday. Meanwhile, I will continue to work on these more manageable, but still tricky things that the ladies figured out and mostly abandoned for pants long ago!

I'd not put myself in any sort of "class" at all; I'm just trying to figure out how to manage and control what's really a very obsolete style of garment that also happens to be of a style that appeals to me.

Do not think that we are alone as guys in this, either. Sapphire was taken enough by my long skirts that she ordered a couple for herself (a ruby-red taffeta one, and a moire-pattern blue) -- and she's going to have to go through precisely the same adjustments and learning-curve as I. She candidly admitted last night that she's not worn anything floor-length in decades. She may well wind up asking me for tips and tricks I've learnt "the hard way".

As I contemplate the photographs I have, I'm coming to the conclusion that I don't really like the way the taffeta skirt hangs with the hoop-underskirt. I'll have to give it a go with the much heavier purple one. I think the way that the fabric will hang will look better; the taffeta one clearly shows the outline of the hoop, and I find that visually distracting

[JRMILLER]

Skirt wearing is a strange, new world. Females were taught long ago what worked for what weather conditions and it's pretty much ingrained into them (notice how many are wearing pants).

Sometimes I really wonder how much of that "living knowledge" is still extant in the general populace; recall that even for women ("females" sounds too clinical for my taste) skirts are now pretty much relegated to "special occasions" and, for the most part, have been replaced by trousers for everyday wear. I am fairly certain that there is a substantial population of women alive now who have never worn a skirt.

So, yes, it is a strange new world for us -- and given most of our seeming ages, it's not the sort of question we could ask our mothers. The notion of guys wearing skirts would likely be strange enough to them that the sorts of feedback we might get could be wrong or confusing, and that's depending on if they're still alive and we have the guts to actually ask!

Carl -- my mother was a pretty understanding lady and seemed to manage my quirks and oddities as I grew up. However, asking her about the in's and out's of skirt management could amount to the last-straw. Since she's not around anymore (at least visibly), I can't ask.

I did wear my kilt to a visit with my sister this past Christmas. You should have heard her howl and go on about her brother wearing a skirt! What a hoot! Then, after she calmed down she told me that both my father and grandfather wore kilts. This is something I did NOT KNOW! Dad always said we were of Scottish decent, but I wasn't really sure from where. Turns out it was Miller, shortened from MacMiller, they originated in the Scottish Highlands. Go figure!

[Since1982]

On my few "cold" outside days, ie: 45-50 F, I wear an ankle length cotton fleece straight stretch skirt that doesn't need a "walking vent" because the stretch material is loose enough to take any length strides I want to without any restriction. I also wear a fairly heavy old fashioned full petticoat under it for warmth if it's under 45 F degrees, and just a loose nylon slip if it's warmer than 45. The cotton fleece is somewhat prickly on the skin so I always wear some sort of slip under it. I "have" tights but prefer not to wear them unless it gets down below 40F. There are only a few days (like 15) every winter under 50F, so I'm usually in a denim, khaki or cotton twill mid calf skirt with just one nylon slip under.
In the summer when it gets down to 90F I'm usually in a knee length denim or khaki skirt in about 6 different individual colors. Only if I'm going somewhere special do I wear one of my colorful marine/ocean/tropical fishes/whales/coral/blue background specialty skirts. Everything else I wear is commonplace so called "men's wear"ie: leather loafers, sandals, T-shirts, regular shirts, jackets, etc. The one thing I do not wear at all anywhere is any kind of trousers or overpants and haven't since my last jury duty with the "no longer a problem" Judge.

[crfriend]

[... M]y mother was a pretty understanding lady and seemed to manage my quirks and oddities as I grew up. However, asking her about the in's and out's of skirt management could amount to the last-straw. Since she's not around anymore (at least visibly), I can't ask.

But, your sister could no doubt have availed herself of her mother's knowledge and experiences trivially. I do not intend to cast any aspersions whatsoever; cultural norms are cultural norms after all.

The woman who did the "heavy lifting" with me when I was growing up was my grandmother -- bless her heart for shouldering that considerable burden -- and I suspect that if I ever would have brought up the notion of wanting to wear skirts all Hell would have broken loose. That avenue was likely completely closed. She's gone now; she passed before I decided to seriously give skirts a go.

I did wear my kilt to a visit with my sister this past Christmas. You should have heard her howl and go on about her brother wearing a skirt! What a hoot!

This sounds like a case of, "let the joking begin" -- and it also sounds like it was mostly in fun. Here's why I say so:

Then, after she calmed down she told me that both my father and grandfather wore kilts. This is something I did NOT KNOW!

It's rather surprising how things can come full-circle, isn't it. Without knowing it, you came 'round to donning the kilts of your ancestors. This is the stuff that "seriously cool" is made of.

I carry my ancestors with me by their tools as well as memories -- pocket-watches, mainly, but there are other devices that have been passed from father to son (a number of times) that I also cherish. You carry them by your clothing choice -- if it was a "choice" (calling, perhaps?) at all. Well done.

[Uncle Al]

Carl,

If you're not to keen on the 'Hoop' showing/bulging above the bottom
of the skirt, you might consider a Square Dancer's petticoat. They
have more material to 'swish', not as long as the 'Hoop' slip and should
allow a curved downward flow of the material. Sort of like a bell shape.
(I hope this idea comes across OK.) Too, they're not as long as the
'Hoop', therefore not hampering your stride.

Uncle Al

[AMM]

Skirt wearing is a strange, new world. Females were taught long ago what worked for what weather conditions and it's pretty much ingrained into them (notice how many are wearing pants). Those of us who just started wearing skirts have to figure all of this out on our own. ...

Actually, my recollection is that women in my youth tended (and tend) to stick with one style and length of skirt most of the time, usually whatever everyone else was wearing. The summer and winter versions would differ mainly in the weight and maybe the fiber of the fabric. I don't think that "management" was such a big issue, because you didn't need to keep adjusting to different kinds of skirts. As for weather, well, when it got cold, you were cold, and when it got hot, you got hot.

I remember when miniskirts came into fashion, and how there were practically formal classes in how to wear them and how to move in them without embarrassing yourself.

I am thinking mid-calf would be a good compromise and that's probably why women seem to favor them unless the weather is warm.

I've also found that somewhere between just above the ankle to mid-calf (25-33") is a good range for me, except when it's really hot, when I go for knee-length. Longer, and you have to worry about dragging or stepping on the hem, shorter, and you have to be really careful how you sit. I've noticed that if you look at pictures of traditional peasant or working-class women from centuries ago, their skirts also fall into this range.

Floor-length skirts, like Carl's, were for wealthy women who didn't have to work outdoors or walk in the mud, and who had servants to mend and clean the hems. Nowadays, they are for formal events, where you ape the manners of the idle rich.

If you're not to keen on the 'Hoop' showing/bulging above the bottom
of the skirt, you might consider a Square Dancer's petticoat.

I wouldn't go with a standard square dance petticoat. The standard length is about 20-22", which is fine for an over-the-knee skirt like most of the women square dancers wear, but it will give a "lampshade" effect on a long skirt.

Some possibilities:
a. Bridal petticoats. They are usually quite long.
b. Malco modes makes a '50's length petticoat (30"), which might be enough for you.
c. You can special-order a square-dance petticoat in your preferred length. I've ordered from Ginny's Promenade Shop.
d. LD Fashions makes petticoats in all lengths and materials. They target crossdressers, but who cares? If anything, it makes it more likely that you can get one in your width and length.

One issue I've found with a petticoat: the skirt really does take up more room. I find I keep knocking things over. Looking at the kind of huge hoop skirts that were popular in the mid 1800's, I imagine that just getting through doors must have been quite a trick. Like floor-length skirts, I think that it was at some level a display of wealth -- there's no way a poor woman could have done any work or even gotten in and out of her house in such a rig, even if she'd been able to get hold of one.

[crfriend]

I remember when miniskirts came into fashion, and how there were practically formal classes in how to wear them and how to move in them without embarrassing yourself.

I wonder how much of that information has made it into the modern era.

I've also found that somewhere between just above the ankle to mid-calf (25-33") is a good range for me, except when it's really hot, when I go for knee-length. Longer, and you have to worry about dragging or stepping on the hem, shorter, and you have to be really careful how you sit. I've noticed that if you look at pictures of traditional peasant or working-class women from centuries ago, their skirts also fall into this range.

Calf-length skirts can work very well on guys, but seem to be more "visible" than shorts-length denim rigs. I'd have to say that I have more skirts in that length than any other; they move well, aren't a nuisance to keep out of things, and provide ample modesty even if one gets clumsy.

Floor-length skirts, like Carl's, were for wealthy women who didn't have to work outdoors or walk in the mud, and who had servants to mend and clean the hems. Nowadays, they are for formal events, where you ape the manners of the idle rich.

If one looks at photographs from the turn of the 20th century, especially ones taken in urban settings, very long skirts are commonplace on women. Typically they don't drag on the ground but instead skim along a couple of inches above; this is how the two very long ones I have work. If one minds his step and where he goes, they seem to make for perfectly practical -- and very comfortable -- garments.

I wouldn't go with a standard square dance petticoat. The standard length is about 20-22", which is fine for an over-the-knee skirt like most of the women square dancers wear, but it will give a "lampshade" effect on a long skirt.

Specifically referring to the new rigs I have, the hoop is removeable so I can simply take it out and I have a long petticoat; this is how I've tended to wear it so far except for a few experiments. A shorter petticoat would cause the skirt to hang very oddly -- as AMM says, like a "lampshade". As I'm not interested in looking like a parody, this is a look I would avoid like the plague.

As an aside, I suspect the reason that the hoop showed rather prominently in my photograps was that there was a wind blowing which put more pressure on that portion of the skirt than just gravity -- and at a different vector.

One issue I've found with a petticoat: the skirt really does take up more room. I find I keep knocking things over.

My personal experience backs that observation 100%. When I'm wearing the underskirt in "petticoat mode" (sans hoop) my "circumference" at floor level is rather larger than the width of my shoulders; this does make me prone to hit things and to knock loose objects around. With the hoop in place, navigation in tight spots does become "interesting". Getting through doors isn't much of a problem -- even ones narrower than the hoop diameter -- as the hoop deforms easily whilst passing through tight spaces and then takes on its normal shape afterwards. A useful upshot of this is that it's an inducement to reduce the clutter in our little house.

Like floor-length skirts, I think that it was at some level a display of wealth -- there's no way a poor woman could have done any work or even gotten in and out of her house in such a rig, even if she'd been able to get hold of one.

That's likely the case with the more extreme styles (e.g. ball gowns), but so far my personal experience seems to point out that long skirts with petticoats are useful and practical garments, albeit with some limitations. Extreme styles still persist as ceremonial garb (e.g. bridal gowns), and present horrific management problems for the wearer, but those styles are not seen on the street any more now than they were a hundred years ago.

Later edit:

As a test of whether I can successfully handle one of my very long skirts at full stride and full speed I took a walk down the street this afternoon to take a look at some drainage problems that our downhill neighbours are having. This was about 1/10th of a mile away on a street with a lot of sand and quite a bit of water on it -- and the subject of my curiosity wasn't just a stream running across the road, but rather one bubbling up through the road. It looks like the culvert that drains the water from uphill got clogged and ruptured, likely from construction activity a few years back, and is making one heck of a mess of things.

The upshot was that I navigated over puddles, sand, rivulets, and other assorted detritus without getting any junk on the hem of either my skirt or petticoat. I also didn't land on the hem so much as once even though I was pushing the speed pretty hard for some of the jaunt. An interesting aspect is that I didn't have to play any games with it like lifting; the hem just stayed out of the way and off the ground of its own accord.

Win.

[Since1982]

A good movie to check out for long skirt and petticoats usages is "Gangs of New York" starring Cameron Diaz, Leo DiCaprio and Daniel Day-Lewis in the main roles. She changed her dresses and skirts (with underskirts and petticoats all the time) on a regular basis. There were also plenty of "female impersonators" in the movie. In one segment Diaz's character had to remind one he should have shaved closer to "pass" better. If that was historically correct, it surprised me that there were that many female impersonators around in 1862, the setting period of the movie.

[Kris]

A good movie to check out for long skirt and petticoats usages is "Gangs of New York" starring Cameron Diaz, Leo DiCaprio and Daniel Day-Lewis in the main roles. She changed her dresses and skirts (with underskirts and petticoats all the time) on a regular basis. There were also plenty of "female impersonators" in the movie. In one segment Diaz's character had to remind one he should have shaved closer to "pass" better. If that was historically correct, it surprised me that there were that many female impersonators around in 1862, the setting period of the movie.

Thanks for reminding me of that, Skip. It is a great movie. I actually don't recall the specifics that you mention, but it was a pretty good view of a very interesting period in New York history. I recommend it highly.

Kris

[crfriend]

It was only a matter of time before I wore one of my nearly-floor-length skirts to work with a petticoat underneath, and that time came today. I opted to go with the sapphire-blue taffeta one as I'm planning on wearing the purple one to a "masquerade ball" this coming Saturday. The day's activities confirmed to me that long skirts work. The only thing I did differently was to take elevators between floors instead of the stairs.

I put in a lot of walking as well, not just inside the building, but also for a noontime jaunt around the campus (good for about a mile, I think. The little pedometer I carry with me stopped blinking red sometime during the day and started blinking green; this means 3,000 steps, which, for me, amounts to about 9,000 feet traverssed. The only time I landed on the hem was in my office when getting up from a sitting position.

I also picked up a very nice compliment from a woman when I was waiting for an elevator. Amazingly, she didn't remark on the skirt, but rather that I looked "very formal". I did garner the usual heckling from my cow-orkers, but that's to be expected as we are all a pretty hefty bunch of ball-busters; since I dish it pretty well, I have to take it, too, and that's OK.